[ASLML] (no subject)

[PZchala at aol.com]

In a message dated 12/31/2003 10:16:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, robertthepastor at juno.com writes:

> I have a GPA (Amphibious Jeep) in a river (Water Obstacle) hex. 
> According to rule D16.23, a Bog Check would have to be conducted when
> attempting to exit the river and enter land.  The GPA failed the Bog
> Check DR with an 11.  

  Yes, an DR 11 with a +1 mod for "Vehicle is not fully-tracked". 

> First, a portion of Chapter G (rules G13.401 & G13.4221) _appears_ to
> apply to this situation.  Rule G13.401 states, "A Watercraft is defined
> as any LC, boat, or *amphibian*."  Rule G13.4221 states amphibians are
> always Waterproofed.  This same rule (G13.4221), third sentence after the
> exception states, ". . . and is sometimes less prone to Bog when exiting
> a deep stream (D8.2)".  The only modifier is "+1 DRM to a Bog Check DR
> for someone leaving a Deep Stream Location which is neither amphibious
> nor water-proofed".  This DRM is making a distinction between amphibious
> AND Waterproofed.  (Yes, this was written long before Chapter G.)  But,
> this DRM is saying an amphibian is not Waterproofed.

  I don't see how you come to this conclusion.  G13.4221 clearly indicates that a vehicle can be Waterproofed and _not_ amphibian. This modifier does not apply if your GPA is exiting a "river".  
  
> So, why is it easier to leave a stream but nor a river?
> Should "neither amphibious nor" be changed to "not"?
   
> Second, rule D8.2, last sentence states, a vehicle which fails a Bog
> Check is Immobile.  Rule D16.2, second to last sentence states, an
> amphibian is always in Motion while in a Water Obstacle unless
> stunned/shocked.  I'm neither stunned nor Shocked.  So, is rule D16.2
> trying to state/mean I do NOT have to spend a Start MP (because I am
> considered drifting in the Water Obstacle hex) **or** the GPA is Immobile
> and bogged?

  D16.23 uses the term "waterline hexes".  Exactly what is a "waterline hex" in ASL?  If it is the land hex that borders the water obstacle, then the GPA is out of the river, but bogged and immobile in the land hex it is trying to enter.  another question for Perry, I think.

> Third, if the GPA becomes Immobilized/Bogged ... where does this happen? 
> In the Water Obstacle Location *or* Beached across the water/land hexside
> the GPA was attempting to cross?  Rule D16.23 mentions "waterline hexes"
> when referencing Bog.  What is a waterline hex?  It is not defined in the
> Index.  But, this is _somewhat_ discussed in rule E5.531 (BOATS: WATER
> LINE:).  This allows passengers of a boat to unload and become Infantry
> in a Water Obstacle hex which is adjacent to a land hex after the boat
> has become Beached.
> So, as rule D16.23 mentions waterline hexes; and,
> This Water Line Location/existence is only explained in rule E5.531;
> Does an amphibian become Beached as it is in a Water Line hex?

  I see we end up asking ourselves the same questions when trying to answer this.  
 
> Fourth, if the GPA becomes Beached, can the Passengers unload?

  See how the problematic rules questions mount? :-)
 
> Fifth and finally, the GPA failed to become mobile.  The second Bog Check
> DR was an eleven with a cdr of 6.  Is the GPA now Immobilized?  According
> to rule D8.1, an unarmored & unarmed vehicle which becomes Immobilized
> becomes a Wreck.  Rule D16.5 states, an amphibian leaves no Wreck and all
> Passengers are eliminated.  So, my HS is eliminated??  If the Passengers
> are not eliminated, do the Passengers become Infantry as per rule E5.531?
> If the Passengers do become Infantry (as per rule E5.531), do they
> become Infantry in the Water Obstacle or Unload across the water/land
> hexside or both.  If the Passengers can only Unload across the water/land
> hexside, what happens if they get bounced back do to an enemy unit?  Yes,
> rule section E5 deals with boats *but* rule E5.6 also talks about
> amphibians!

  Alright, enough!  I'm waving the white flag! :-)  The first question that must be answered is, "What happens to a amphibious vehicle that fails a Bog check as it leaves a water obstacle trying to enter a land hex?  Does it Bog in the water obstacle hex,or the land hex it is trying to enter?  If it Bogs in the water obstacle hex, is it immobile?"

  Ok, two questions.

> IMHO, I think an amphibian which fails a Bog Check DR should become
> Beached across the water/land hexside it was attempting to cross and any
> Passengers should be able to Unload as per rule E5.531!  
> What say the
> Listers??

   Beached and Bogged.  A possible solution.  It seems a bit unfair for the passengers to suffer elimination because their amphibian became immobilized.
  
> If you read this far, THANK YOU!  Take care,
> Robert

  Your welcome, and Happy New Year!

Mike Pierzchala