[ASLML] Fw: PERRY-SEZ: A to Q on CE DRM/Height Advantage/Indirect-Fire

[Mountain View Cottage]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <perrycocke at comcast.net>
To: <mountainview at westelcom.com>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 5:32 PM
Subject: A to Q on CE DRM/Height Advantage/Indirect-Fire


>
> > > >Subject: CE DRM/Height Advantage/Indirect-Fire
> > > >
> > > >Cut/Pasted from Romanowski's Site:
> > > >
> > > >- D5.311: Is the Inherent Crew of a BU OT
> > > >- AFV which is hit by (non-Air Burst)
> > > >- Indirect Fire Vulnerable?
> > > >-
> > > >- No.
> > > >
> > > >Is it safe to say this Perry-Sez effectively precludes
> > > >Indirect-Fire from being able to reduce CE DRM
> > > >due (solely) to Height Advantage?
> > >
> > >
>
> No. HA can reduce CE DRM for both direct and indirect fire -- there is no
limitation in either D5.311 or D6.61. (The previous answer should be "Not
automatically.".)
>
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > >In other words, if a MTR at Level 4 fires at a
> > > >Carrier (or the above mentioned BU OT AFV,
> > > >or even a CE OT AFV) at Level 0 and the
> > > >Range = 3, 2, or 1 ("Height Advantage" otherwise
> > > >capable of reducing a CE DRM), is the the
> > > >Carrier (or BU OT AFV / CE OT AFV)
> > > >treated as Unarmored for the attack vs. *it*
> > > >(the Vehicle itself, be it Carrier / CE OT AFV /
> > > >BU OT AFV).
> > >
> > >
>
> Yes.
>
> > >
> > >
> > > >In short, can Indirect-Fire reduce CE DRM
> > > >if it has Height Advantage over an OT AFV?
> > >
>
> Yes, given the right range.
>
> Sorry for the delay.

NP

> ....Perry
> MMP

Thanks, but as you might expect, I don't like it.

I'll agree that's what the rules "say", and your ruling is in line
with the rules text, but I think it's a "hole", and an oversight.

Theoretically, *all* Indirect Fire should get "Height Advantage"
due to the nature of the "incoming fire" (from above). It doesn't
really have anything to do with LOS/LOF:

Consider this:

2 separate MTRs, separately Spotted. Neither MTR has LOS to the
Level 0 Ht target. Both are @ Range = 2 (to the target). One is @
Level 4, and therefore qualifies for HA CE DRM Reduction. The
other is @ Level 2, and therefore doesn't qualify for HA. It makes
no sense to me that the Level 4 MTR gets a CE DRM Reduction
(and the Ht itself gets attacked as a softie) solely due to the fact that
its rounds are leaving the ground, flying almost straight up into the air
and coming almost straight down on the target, from a higher "starting
point" than the Level 2 MTR. Both MTRs *LOF* (round trajectory)
are nearly, if not in the end almost exactly, indentical, but it's the Level
4 MTR's "higher altititude" that grants the boon, nothing at all to do with
actual LOS/LOF.

Concurrently, assuming an LOS shot, how does being able to see a
candy wrapper on an HT's deck make it any easier to drop a round
directly into the Ht? Your ruling assumes HA will *automatically*
grant this, but I doubt the chance of that happening by throwing rounds
up in the air and hoping they come down near the target (much less
actually *in* the target) is any greater with "HA" than if Mortaring
from same-level.

I can see the benefit/advantage if I'm throwing MG bullets at it - it's
obvious - the protective siding has been compromised to my direct
fire LOS/LOF, *directly into* it.

Lastly, note that *target* AFV HA is clearly NA to Indirect Fire.
That make sense - it doesn't matter that I can only see the Turret
and/or Superstructure of that Pz IV when I shoot at it with my MTR.
The rounds are coming in from above, and can (and do) easily explode
right next to the treads and/or land directly onto the hull decking.

Nay, I believe the intent of HA & CE Reduction was meant for
Direct Fire LOS/LOF only.

Again I think this is supported by the C1.55 -1 DRM for OT when dealing
with Indirect Fire vs. an AFV. Being OT, it's more vulnerable to Indirect
Fire,
so you get a -1, but it's still an AFV.  "Dropping one in" is more along the
lines
of a CH, and/or a good low effects DR, combined with that -1. It's rare, but
it
happens. To automatically grant interior deck hits just becuase the rounds
are
leaving the ground from a nearby hill or rooftop (and even without the
firing
weapon having LOS!) is a bit hokey.

Whilst awaiting your answer I do recollect (as I mentioned in the earlier
thread)
having this come up before, and I believe we played it with the advantage,
since
that's what the rules "allow". I can't, however, recall the outcome. (It was
on VASL,
a long time ago, and I was an observer of someone else's game.)

I will have no problem playing it this way as the Ht owner, but I wil not
be employing it as the MTR owner.

Christopher Fleury
Sgt. Meikle's Bunker
Mountain View Cottage
Lewis, NY
USS Iowa; BB-61
Camp Dudley #12557