From geb3 at inter.net Thu Apr 1 01:19:27 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu Apr 1 01:16:30 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Firefly mystery Message-ID: Somebody please point me in the right direction regarding WoA & FKaC Sherman VC. I have a hand-written note to myself from an ASLML post that I believe was from Perry (cannot find it anymore) saying that the Firefly VC ID "F" counter mistakenly shows a BMG, but both my IIC & VC counters from WoA (also Chap N images), as well as the new FKaC counters show no such error. What's wrong with my memory? Or, does the problem turn up elsewhere. George "light me up, baby" Bates Yokohama, Japan Now in progress: J53 "Setting The Stage", German vs. David Olie SASL M13 "Recon", Free French vs. German ENEMY From geb3 at inter.net Thu Apr 1 01:59:29 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu Apr 1 01:56:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Moderators vs Stormtroopers In-Reply-To: <008001c41797$66a4e680$8101a8c0@warwick.net> Message-ID: Where have you been hiding, Dolan? Come back to the Light! - G -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]On Behalf Of Phlegm Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:14 PM To: Paul Ferraro; ASL List Subject: [ASLML] Moderators vs Stormtroopers Death to the Moderators! Nuke the Stormtroopers! Play Crokinole!!! From rockgheba at libero.it Thu Apr 1 02:29:15 2004 From: rockgheba at libero.it (rockgheba@libero.it) Date: Thu Apr 1 02:32:09 2004 Subject: [ASLML] KGP II and KR counters Message-ID: Hi guys! Scott asked: > Hello all...yes, I'm still here--just lurking due to an extremely heavy work and family load. *sigh* I owe Mario my KGP II module...anyone know what counters came with that module? Any idea what counters came with J2--Kakazu Ridge? > Scott, if I'm not wrong you owe me KGP I, not II! Take your time with Real Life (TM) business, and get to play once in a while! Be well! From dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk Thu Apr 1 02:59:52 2004 From: dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk (David Schofield) Date: Thu Apr 1 03:05:43 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Message-ID: <4C40C6148BACD711AEF800805F8B335E0113834E@exchange1.bournemouth.ac.uk> Great tournament Pete. Well organised and great fun. Cheers David -----Original Message----- From: Pete Phillipps [mailto:pete@vftt.co.uk] Sent: 30 March 2004 23:35 To: ASL Mailing List Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Hi Everyone, Just back from the HEROES 2004 ASL weekend in Blackpool, and the results are as follows: Tournament champion, with a 5-0 record was Toby Pilling, who wins a framed certificate and a cheque for ?75. Worst player, with a 0-5 record was Nigel Blair, who wins a copy of the ASL Starter Kit - hopefully he'll improve in time for INTENSIVE FIRE! The snake-eyes prize was won by Toby Pilling, who rolled 9 snakes. He walked away with ?2. The box-cars prize was won by Paul Case, who rolled 15 in his game. He knew he was gonna have a bad game as he rolled 8 of them on the first turn! Needless to say he didn't win! But he did win ?12. A good time was had by all, including 8 tournament newbies out of 35 attendees, who all are planning on coming to INTENSIVE FIRE. Which is 29 - 31 October 2004 in Bournemouth. HEROES 2005 is pencilled in for the weekend 25 - 27 March 2005. A full report of this year's event will be in VFTT55, which I hope to have out at the start of May. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 From w.kelly at lancaster.ac.uk Thu Apr 1 03:13:04 2004 From: w.kelly at lancaster.ac.uk (Kelly, Wayne) Date: Thu Apr 1 03:18:41 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Message-ID: <7F332A8009EE5D4CB62C87717A3498A1042570@exchange-be1.lancs.ac.uk> I concur. Nice one Pete. Great tournament and a very friendly bunch. Took pity on us newbies, cheers! Thanks to Ian for the Armour Tutorial despite us being diced! Looking forward to Bournemouth. Thanks Wayne -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]On Behalf Of David Schofield Sent: 01 April 2004 12:00 To: 'pete@vftt.co.uk'; ASL Mailing List Subject: RE: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Great tournament Pete. Well organised and great fun. Cheers David -----Original Message----- From: Pete Phillipps [mailto:pete@vftt.co.uk] Sent: 30 March 2004 23:35 To: ASL Mailing List Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Hi Everyone, Just back from the HEROES 2004 ASL weekend in Blackpool, and the results are as follows: Tournament champion, with a 5-0 record was Toby Pilling, who wins a framed certificate and a cheque for ?75. Worst player, with a 0-5 record was Nigel Blair, who wins a copy of the ASL Starter Kit - hopefully he'll improve in time for INTENSIVE FIRE! The snake-eyes prize was won by Toby Pilling, who rolled 9 snakes. He walked away with ?2. The box-cars prize was won by Paul Case, who rolled 15 in his game. He knew he was gonna have a bad game as he rolled 8 of them on the first turn! Needless to say he didn't win! But he did win ?12. A good time was had by all, including 8 tournament newbies out of 35 attendees, who all are planning on coming to INTENSIVE FIRE. Which is 29 - 31 October 2004 in Bournemouth. HEROES 2005 is pencilled in for the weekend 25 - 27 March 2005. A full report of this year's event will be in VFTT55, which I hope to have out at the start of May. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 From tmorin2454 at comcast.net Thu Apr 1 04:47:58 2004 From: tmorin2454 at comcast.net (tmorin2454@comcast.net) Date: Thu Apr 1 04:50:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: errata on Dispatches scenario DB041 Message-ID: <040120041247.13742.406C0F7E00050F26000035AE2200750744FFCBCACBCD91968D9092@comcast.net> To all Dispatches from the Bunker subscribers, The SAN for the U.S. in "The Killing Ground" was inadvertantly deleted from the scenario by the Publisher program, and we didn't catch the mistake. The U.S. should have a SAN:4. Our apologies to all of our subscribers, as we HATE when errata like this slips through. Anyways, hope you enjoy the scenario. regards, Tom Morin From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Thu Apr 1 04:50:54 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Thu Apr 1 04:54:12 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet Message-ID: <005301c417e7$f8a0f9c0$3611c80a@posh3> Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? Kenneth From ctewks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 1 04:50:53 2004 From: ctewks at yahoo.com (Chuck T) Date: Thu Apr 1 04:54:44 2004 Subject: [ASLML] OT - need a European opinion Message-ID: Listerz ? sorry to go off-topic, but I wanted to reach out to any players in Europe who might be able to offer some insight into a Paris-based company called Capsuletech. ?www.capsuletech.com is their web site. ? It?s next to impossible to get any good data from the hotel room I am currently in. ?Things I would like to know about are financial stability, worker opinion etc. ? Thanks much for any assist. ? ? Chuck ? _____________ Chuck T ctewks@yahoo.com ? From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Thu Apr 1 05:21:21 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Thu Apr 1 05:24:07 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results In-Reply-To: <4C40C6148BACD711AEF800805F8B335E0113834E@exchange1.bournemouth.ac.uk> Message-ID: <000701c417ec$39f78520$6401a8c0@NewDell> > Great tournament Pete. Well organised and great fun. How about an AAR guys? Or are all of you still hung over :) From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Apr 1 05:53:26 2004 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Apr 1 05:56:56 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit Added To ROAR In-Reply-To: <002101c41798$1a163f70$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <000a01c417f0$b5292920$9bfebe42@argent> Folks- The ASL Starter Kit scenarios have been added to ROAR, so when you let your Newbie trounce you please enter the result. http://www.jrvdev.com/ROAR/VER1/default.asp Many thanks once again to JR & all the work he does with ROAR. Regards, Chas +++++++++++++++++ Chas Argent sidirezegh@charter.net Medford, Oregon, USA From geb3 at inter.net Thu Apr 1 07:49:02 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu Apr 1 07:46:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Product Review: ASL Starter Kit #1 (long) Message-ID: OK, kids, I've spent so much time the last 2 days wading through this baby that I'm behind on 2 projects, my chores at home, AARs from last weekend and my PBeM games (I have remembered to shower). So I have something to show for this "wasted time", as my wife calls it, I thought I'd share what I've found with the rest of the class, particularly anybody who has held back from acquiring it yet. Some of these thoughts have already surfaced in other posts as I've typed the last 36 hours. Apologies in advance for things repeated. For those of you who want to hit "delete" and move on, I'll give the overall grade first: A- This product succeeds at doing what has needed to be done since the curtain came down on AHGC in '98. We now have a self-contained introduction to the hobby that the current generation of pimply-faced nerds & geeks born during the '80s can both afford and understand. The chrome is off, the rules are bite-sized and we're back to a "beer (or Mountain Dew? Diet Coke?) & pretzels" game that can be learned _and_ played (twice!) in an afternoon. More fun than a barrel o' monkeys for less than one Andrew and one Abe. Then, if the crowd is hungry for more, they can dive deeper into the ASL canon. Now for the details. I think I'll follow the handy parts list MMP sticks in their products these days. Box: Serviceable and attractive. Same construction as the recent historical studies. What I like best is this simple sentence on the front, "This game contains everything you need to begin playing Advanced Squad Leader." 'nuff said. Mapboards: I think we're seeing the wave of the future here folks, and it is cardstock. It's the obvious middle-ground between cost & sturdiness. I haven't taken them down to Kinko's yet, but having spent 7 years of my career there I think I can safely say they're going to take laminate even better than the unmounted maps because they're firm, not floppy. Now, don't roll boxcars and find they've been eaten by the rollers!!! I'm a little disturbed that my boards were trimmed a bit off center, with the top of hex number 1 grid lines being shaved off while there is a little surplus on the end of the number 10 hexes. But this is a matter of +-1mm, and I can live with it. Tom Repetti's question about the use of cookie-cutter buildings needs answering. A quick examination shows that yD8 & yo10 are perfect clones, while zF5 appears to be a "Mini Me" of yM4. I have to call this chintzy, too, in spite of the need to keep costs under control. Other terrain are roads (paved & unpaved), woods (and woods road), orchard and grain. All level 0. The ASL SK world is flatter than a classroom full of middle school girls in Kobe. Not much else of note here, except that the vast majority of buildings are stone, so our newbies will be getting over-used to +3 mods. BTW, there are no 10-3 leaders in the counter mix. Countersheet: Wow, look at that segue! New Yorker, here I come... The countersheet is of the same standard we have seen in the HSs and in FKaC. I love these sheets because MMP has finally got a printer with sharp, accurate dies. The cuts are center-on and clean. No more stubble on the counter sides, either. All "hanging chads" have been relegated to the corners, which our flocks of newbies will soon learn to trim. I can hear the hazing at the Dubuque Cornfield Wars 2004 now, "Hey, Meat, you've got sloppy counters. When you get to the Show, you can leave your counters untrimmed, and the press will call you 'colorful'. Here, it just means you're a slob, so pick up a nail cutter at 7/11 and get to work." Last year Will Fleming raised a question about spray-on fixative smearing the counter ink. I don't know if he ever got an answer to his concerns, and I don't use the stuff myself. Still it appears to be fairly common in the community, so it might be helpful to see some follow-up. Now for content. Germans are in the majority, probably because they have the greatest variety of squad types. All but the 838 ubermenschen are represented. This makes the US 747 top dog on the ASL SK street. Though there is only one 667, there are 1st & 2nd line rifle and even greenies in good numbers. I was looking forward to seeing more Russian 447s and 426s to fill gaps in my swarming Soviet masses, but there are only 5 & 6 of them, respectively. In addition, Ivan gets 14(!)x458 and 3x527, with no 628s in the mix. Ah well... SW are limited to MGs, FTs & DCs. The Soviets (naturally) come out on the short end of the stick; no HMG, .50cal or FT, and just one of those overweight, cantankerous Maxim guns plus 3 LMG. Nazi's get a liberal supply of LMGs with 2 MMGs and an HMG. Americans are blessed with 2 MMGs and a .50 cal, but no water-cooled HMGs. Rulebook: Some have suggested that the Starter Kit is not Programmed Instruction, but I would suggest that it is in a very broad sense. Although new rules are not added each scenario, what is presented to novices here is a very limited amount of Chapters A & B that should penetrate the noggin by the time the 6 scenarios have concluded. With any luck the Starter Kit #2 will be along soon and our initiates will get a second dose of infantry rules and new terrain plus EC. Then there'll be #3 with another step. Looks purt' near like PI to me, Clem, but you can call it what you like. It's _still_ good for the hobby. This is 12 pages of easy to read typeface with plenty of clear color illustrations and examples. Rules are explained according to their order in the SoP, for the most part. I like these rules in that they tell players _what to do_, as opposed to the ASLRB which defines terms and establishes the parameters of each rule. In this sense, the SK rulebook is clearer and more understandable than it's counterpart sections of Chapter A & B. The SKs together may end up making the ASLRB more of a "reference guide." What's left out for next time? Here's an unofficial, incomplete list: spraying fire, snipers, underlined ELR, fire lanes, concealment, HtH CC, cavalry, fires, EC and wind, bypass, HOB, prisoners, dm MGs... How many of us will instinctively roll for Wind Change at first and watch our new students of the game say, "Huh?" Adding another A3 or 11x17 sheet would create four additional pages of text. Or if you shrank the cover illustration, credits, MMP ad and a few other places you might get back two columns. If you were at MMP, what would you include in the extra space? More on that later. Scenarios: Sam Belcher just did a great job of summarizing the scenario content, so I'll bow to him and move on quickly. One is a Pete Shelling opus so that will serve to introduce our acolytes to the Master. Can these scenarios be played fairly & enjoyably with all Chapter A rules? Hellufino yet, but there's nothing wrong with trying. Can't imagine it would make that much difference. We'll find out after they've been played for a while. A quick interlude here on all the text in the module. I'm afraid I feel that I still see far too many easily preventable errors for a commercial product like this. For example: - There is a glaring error involving DM removal in the Rally Example (recently pointed out, I believe). Bound to create newbie confusion. - Unnecessary use of passive voice abounds. SVO. KISS. - Easy ones like, "... the grenadiers ... haved to face ..." in a scenario aftermath. If my English Comp teacher were still alive... - Reference to 6te Armee commander as "Paulus", not "von Paulus". May be rejected at the borders by FRG customs just on principle. My suggestion, hard though it may be on the bottom line, is that MMP's proofreading and editing cadre is not up to the task. A professional editor is needed on every project to keep the text at an acceptable level of quality. I wouldn't put up with this in a product manual or a presentation, and I think this is an equivalent case. Anybody out there who writes for a living want to volunteer to help? This is the hardest thing I have to say about a product I like very, very much. I hope it will be taken in the spirit intended. QRDC: When this acronym pops up, I _really_ feel like we're back in SL. Back to one 8.5x11, too. I see our tender young minds will be getting fed the orthodox line as only the IFT is represented. The addition of the MF/PP chart from one of the earlier Journals (or was it an Annual?) is a very nice touch. Dice: Not much to note here, but for some strange reason the colored die is a few mm smaller across each side. Probably doesn't matter statistically, but it really feels odd. Somebody trying to get rid of inventory? What to leave out? Overall, it's hard to argue with the choices that MMP has made for what should constitute the "basic" infantry game. Spraying fire wouldn't have been that hard to include, nor would Snipers, but they are definitely not core. Still, I don't want to start seeing a lot of new guys get into the bad habit of not consciously looking for a possible SAN on every die roll. Bypass and fire lanes definitely belong in an "intermediate" game. So does concealment, although it is critical to successful play. I think my vote would go to a modified HOB w/o surrender. Heroes, battle hardening and berserk add a lot of spice to the game. But perhaps that's too much countersheet and rulebook space after all. Sigh... Acknowledgements: It looks like Ken Dunn and Pete Phillips in particular were big contributors to MMP's effort to create this product. Goes without saying that without MMP and the playtest crews nothing would have happened. I'm curious also if Robert Wolkey's iASL initiative from a while ago was part of what helped get this off the ground. I understand he had to abandon this effort for lack of time, but if he was part of the inspiration, I hope he gets some recognition. Wolkster has always been very vocal about bringing new blood into the hobby. To summarize, this feels a lot like going back to Squad Leader again, and I'm very happy to have it. Personally, I made a very strange jump into ASL, having owned the rulebook but nothing else for many years and with only a few SL series experiences under my belt. Then, I got lost in my career for 10 years. I came back into it solitaire in '99 and found the smoke rising from the ruins of AHGC. Since then, with the generous help of Will Fleming and Malcolm Rutledge, I've gradually found my legs, but many things still don't come naturally to me. This product may help me finally get the kinks out of my basic game and start playing in a more fast-paced, coherent manner. I think my next six scenarios have just been picked! Roll low every one! I gotta go to bed. George Bates Yokohama, Japan Now in progress: J53 "Setting The Stage", German vs. David Olie SASL M13 "Recon", Free French vs. German ENEMY From JPAPAS at ci.duluth.mn.us Thu Apr 1 07:55:40 2004 From: JPAPAS at ci.duluth.mn.us (Jeff Papas ) Date: Thu Apr 1 07:59:12 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Product Review: ASL Starter Kit #1 (long) Message-ID: Me. I volunteer every time someone suggests this. :) But then I think the powers that be already know that. Nice review, George! Jeff "Does media relations / writing / proofing in non ASL-time" Papas >>> "George Bates" 04/01/04 09:49AM >>> A professional editor is needed on every project to keep the text at an acceptable level of quality. I wouldn't put up with this in a product manual or a presentation, and I think this is an equivalent case. Anybody out there who writes for a living want to volunteer to help? This is the hardest thing I have to say about a product I like very, very much. I hope it will be taken in the spirit intended. From m_b_h at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 1 08:15:51 2004 From: m_b_h at sbcglobal.net (Michael Handiboe) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:19:08 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions References: <002101c41798$1a163f70$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <039f01c41804$9a2ea320$fb0110ac@computer> I am thrilled about this product. Before ASLSK release, I was torn between playing SL (because I could) and the much better ASL (because I liked it more). Now, I can abandon ol' SL forever and not have to bother with two different sets of rules. Yet I have some concerns: Are there any rules that _change_ when moving from iASL to ASL? I didn't notice any, but I'm hardly an authority on the ASL rules. For example, last time I played ASL, I couldn't find the rules re: firing MMG/HMG in the AdvFirePh if they moved immediately beforehand. iASL clearly states that such SW cannot fire after moving. Can I be sure that this rule holds true in ASL? Can anyone point me to the rule number? I too, preordered two copies and I received mine on Tuesday. I hope to get the neighbor ROTC guy involved ... ('hooked', actually :-) ) Thank you and good job, MMP! ---Michael From keithdalton at verizon.net Thu Apr 1 08:19:51 2004 From: keithdalton at verizon.net (keithdalton@verizon.net) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:22:43 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions Message-ID: <20040401161952.TDIT11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full ASL rules wrap over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the transition, it's just added to what is already there. Keith > > From: "Michael Handiboe" > Date: 2004/04/01 Thu AM 10:15:51 CST > To: "'ASL Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions > > I am thrilled about this product. > > Before ASLSK release, I was torn between playing SL (because I could) > and the much better ASL (because I liked it more). > > Now, I can abandon ol' SL forever and not have to bother with two > different sets of rules. > > Yet I have some concerns: Are there any rules that _change_ when moving > from > iASL to ASL? I didn't notice any, but I'm hardly an authority on the ASL > rules. > > For example, last time I played ASL, I couldn't find the rules re: firing > MMG/HMG > in the AdvFirePh if they moved immediately beforehand. iASL clearly states > that such SW cannot fire after moving. Can I be sure that this rule holds > true > in ASL? Can anyone point me to the rule number? > > I too, preordered two copies and I received mine on Tuesday. I hope to get > the > neighbor ROTC guy involved ... ('hooked', actually :-) ) > > Thank you and good job, MMP! > > ---Michael > > > From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 08:24:42 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:27:33 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: errata on Dispatches scenario DB041 In-Reply-To: <040120041247.13742.406C0F7E00050F26000035AE2200750744FFCBCACBCD91968D9092@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001401c41805$d7270be0$647ba8c0@samb03> > To all Dispatches from the Bunker subscribers, > > The SAN for the U.S. in "The Killing Ground" was > inadvertantly deleted from the scenario by the Publisher > program, and we didn't catch the mistake. > The U.S. should have a SAN:4. Our apologies to all of our > subscribers, as we HATE when errata like this slips through. > Anyways, hope you enjoy the scenario. > > regards, > > Tom Morin Geeze, Tom. There have been a lot of these posts. Doesn't anyone proofread any more? Thanks for a great product. Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 08:25:56 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:28:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet In-Reply-To: <005301c417e7$f8a0f9c0$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <001501c41806$030e0f60$647ba8c0@samb03> > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? There were only a few.... About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble counters, etc. Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 08:27:15 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:30:05 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results In-Reply-To: <000701c417ec$39f78520$6401a8c0@NewDell> Message-ID: <001601c41806$32038b60$647ba8c0@samb03> > > Great tournament Pete. Well organised and great fun. And Brian W wrote: > How about an AAR guys? Or are all of you still hung over :) Oh? You've been to one of Pete's tourneys then? From m_b_h at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 1 08:31:32 2004 From: m_b_h at sbcglobal.net (Michael Handiboe) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:34:51 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions References: <20040401161952.TDIT11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: <03c801c41806$cb3f2500$fb0110ac@computer> Very good then. Only happier. ...how about "layers of an onion"? :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions > The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full ASL rules wrap over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the transition, it's just added to what is already there. > > Keith From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Thu Apr 1 08:32:21 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:35:41 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions References: <002101c41798$1a163f70$647ba8c0@samb03> <039f01c41804$9a2ea320$fb0110ac@computer> Message-ID: <001001c41806$e80245f0$3611c80a@posh3> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Handiboe" To: "'ASL Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions | For example, last time I played ASL, I couldn't find the rules re: firing | MMG/HMG | in the AdvFirePh if they moved immediately beforehand. iASL clearly states | that such SW cannot fire after moving. Can I be sure that this rule holds | true | in ASL? Can anyone point me to the rule number? A4.41 Kenneth From m_b_h at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 1 08:32:59 2004 From: m_b_h at sbcglobal.net (Michael Handiboe) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:36:15 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet References: <001501c41806$030e0f60$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <03d101c41806$fef8b8c0$fb0110ac@computer> My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print or something? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Belcher" To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? > > There were only a few.... > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble counters, etc. > > Sam > > From keithdalton at verizon.net Thu Apr 1 08:39:42 2004 From: keithdalton at verizon.net (keithdalton@verizon.net) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:42:34 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions Message-ID: <20040401163942.KIQA1634.out006.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> > ...how about "layers of an onion"? :-) > Parfait's have layers, how about parfaits? ;-) From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 08:40:28 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:43:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions In-Reply-To: <039f01c41804$9a2ea320$fb0110ac@computer> Message-ID: <002101c41808$0b1420d0$647ba8c0@samb03> > Yet I have some concerns: Are there any rules that _change_ > when moving from iASL to ASL? I didn't notice any, but I'm > hardly an authority on the ASL rules. I haven't noticed any differences other than that ASL -adds- a lot of rules. > For example, last time I played ASL, I couldn't find the > rules re: firing MMG/HMG in the AdvFirePh if they moved > immediately beforehand. iASL clearly states that such SW > cannot fire after moving. Can I be sure that this rule holds > true in ASL? Can anyone point me to the rule number? A4.41. Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 08:46:02 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:48:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet In-Reply-To: <03d101c41806$fef8b8c0$fb0110ac@computer> Message-ID: <002501c41808$d1e22400$647ba8c0@samb03> Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the First Edition Hedgerow Hell. Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. > -----Original Message----- > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Michael Handiboe > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print > or something? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Belcher" > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? > > > > There were only a few.... > > > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters > > > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble > counters, > > etc. > > > > Sam > > > > > > From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Thu Apr 1 08:49:12 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:52:32 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet References: <002501c41808$d1e22400$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <001d01c41809$4315f020$3611c80a@posh3> But on the MMP website, it says that there's a countersheet in the HH box. Is that an error then? Kenneth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Belcher" To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the First Edition | Hedgerow Hell. | | Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. | | | | > -----Original Message----- | > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net | > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Michael Handiboe | > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM | > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net | > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | > | > | > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print | > or something? | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "Sam Belcher" | > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; | > | > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM | > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | > | > | > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? | > > | > > There were only a few.... | > > | > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters | > > | > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble | > counters, | > > etc. | > > | > > Sam | > > | > > | > | > | | | From cameron.henson at us.army.mil Thu Apr 1 08:52:30 2004 From: cameron.henson at us.army.mil (cameron.henson@us.army.mil) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:55:25 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASLSK vs Partrooper & PI Message-ID: <17c9baa17ca909.17ca90917c9baa@us.army.mil> Let's look at it from your point of view then. If I purchase ASLSK and learn the rules therein, what next? Can you sit down with an opponent and play any of the hundreds of published scenarios? Not unless that person wants to teach you how to play. At some point folks are going to have to make that decision and invest the money if they want to play the whole system. So why pay the additional $24? For most of us, we made the difficult transition from SL to ASL with BV and the ASLRB. Back then that was how much of an investment, $80? Paratrooper came out to help coax those playing SL to ASL and in itself added more rules as you progressed through the Paratrooper scenarios. But when we finished with the transition we were versed well enough in the rules to start playing any of the ASL scenarios. If ASLSK gets people interested in playing the full version of ASL, great. Congratulations. But what then? I really hope you all suceed, I just hope you have the business model in place to back up your ambitions. C. Kent Henson Battlin' Bastard from 'Bama ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Youse Date: Thursday, April 1, 2004 10:02 am Subject: Re: [ASLML] MMP Stormtroopers-LONG > > As for the ASLRB reprint, I wouldn't look for it anytime soon. > I'm > > glad that some people will buy and play ASLSK but I still think > we had > > a Programed Instruction system in place that would have done the > job > > with Paratrooper and its Chapter K. > > Jim Stahler's article has been available on our website for some > time, > under the ASL Articles section. Here: > http://www.multimanpublishing.com/ASL/articles.php It has been > there > for quite some time. > > However, I am much more inclined to believe that a person is more > likely to take the ASL plunge on a $24 stand-alone product rather > than > the solution of buying the ASL rulebook ($80), Paratrooper ($30+), > several maps ($10 or $24 depending on how you buy them), and > downloading the PI off our website. > > $24 versus $120+ > > I can't even believe I have to point what certainly seems to be > obvious. > The only problem with the ASL Starter Kit is that we didn't do it > five > years ago. > > Brian > > From pyoung at cwhealth.net Thu Apr 1 10:26:57 2004 From: pyoung at cwhealth.net (Peter Young) Date: Thu Apr 1 09:12:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASLSK vs Partrooper & PI References: <17c9baa17ca909.17ca90917c9baa@us.army.mil> Message-ID: <004b01c41816$ea999f60$1543030a@Young> Once the Rulebook and BV are printed (soon apparently on the ASLRB), that transition will be possible. But regardless of whether they're available right now, I can't see how the $24 Starter Kit is a bad way to start. If a player finds it's not for them, they're not out very much, and still have a self-contained game to play if the mood ever hits them. If they do get the bug, then that initial $24 will be a drop in the bucket compared to what they'll pay to get into "real" ASL. Paratrooper was designed with the large crowd of SL players in mind. That crowd (mostly) no longer exists, having likely either already made the transition to ASL long ago or aging out of the hobby. What still exists are some players still playing SL, some who tried it long ago and decided not to take the ASL plunge, and a huge flock of potential newbies who've never tried any of it. The Starter Kit exists for them and based on comments on Consimworld, a number of "rejected ASL long ago"-type players are considering this option. In a way, the Starter Kit will serve the same purpose of introducing ASL to these players that SL did for many of us. Paratrooper was a transition method for those already familiar with the system. I think it was almost useless for someone with no prior experience. Prior to the Starter Kit, the only effective way to learn (from scratch) was to have an existing player teach you, in which case you might as well take the full plunge into BV. I have to say that this may be the first time I can remember (at least in the last several years) someone defending Paratrooper as an intro module to ASL. Peter "Self-taught in spite of all the above" Young Yakima, WA http://firstfire.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Brian Youse" ; "ASL Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: [ASLML] ASLSK vs Partrooper & PI > Let's look at it from your point of view then. If I purchase ASLSK and learn the rules therein, what next? Can you sit down with an opponent and play any of the hundreds of published scenarios? Not unless that person wants to teach you how to play. At some point folks are going to have to make that decision and invest the money if they want to play the whole system. So why pay the additional $24? > > For most of us, we made the difficult transition from SL to ASL with BV and the ASLRB. Back then that was how much of an investment, $80? Paratrooper came out to help coax those playing SL to ASL and in itself added more rules as you progressed through the Paratrooper scenarios. But when we finished with the transition we were versed well enough in the rules to start playing any of the ASL scenarios. > > If ASLSK gets people interested in playing the full version of ASL, great. Congratulations. But what then? I really hope you all suceed, I just hope you have the business model in place to back up your ambitions. > > C. Kent Henson > Battlin' Bastard from 'Bama > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Youse > Date: Thursday, April 1, 2004 10:02 am > Subject: Re: [ASLML] MMP Stormtroopers-LONG > > > > As for the ASLRB reprint, I wouldn't look for it anytime soon. > > I'm > > > glad that some people will buy and play ASLSK but I still think > > we had > > > a Programed Instruction system in place that would have done the > > job > > > with Paratrooper and its Chapter K. > > > > Jim Stahler's article has been available on our website for some > > time, > > under the ASL Articles section. Here: > > http://www.multimanpublishing.com/ASL/articles.php It has been > > there > > for quite some time. > > > > However, I am much more inclined to believe that a person is more > > likely to take the ASL plunge on a $24 stand-alone product rather > > than > > the solution of buying the ASL rulebook ($80), Paratrooper ($30+), > > several maps ($10 or $24 depending on how you buy them), and > > downloading the PI off our website. > > > > $24 versus $120+ > > > > I can't even believe I have to point what certainly seems to be > > obvious. > > The only problem with the ASL Starter Kit is that we didn't do it > > five > > years ago. > > > > Brian > > > > > > > From m_b_h at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 1 09:30:49 2004 From: m_b_h at sbcglobal.net (Michael Handiboe) Date: Thu Apr 1 09:34:08 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet References: <002501c41808$d1e22400$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <043f01c4180f$1377a240$fb0110ac@computer> I am a gullible newbie. I admit ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Belcher" To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the First Edition > Hedgerow Hell. > > Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. > From cameron.henson at us.army.mil Thu Apr 1 09:33:29 2004 From: cameron.henson at us.army.mil (cameron.henson@us.army.mil) Date: Thu Apr 1 09:36:24 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Stahler's PI in the Annual Message-ID: <185c1bc185a017.185a017185c1bc@us.army.mil> I really think that the ASLRB II is more user friendly to the PI system devised by Jim Stahler ages ago. Was there much to be updated on the PI so it could be used with ASLRB II? Once you got past the A.3 and A.4, and still had your sanity, you were home free! ;-) Kent Battlin' Bastard from 'Bama ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Young Date: Thursday, April 1, 2004 9:26 pm Subject: Re: [ASLML] ASLSK vs Partrooper & PI > Once the Rulebook and BV are printed (soon apparently on the > ASLRB), that > transition will be possible. But regardless of whether they're > availableright now, I can't see how the $24 Starter Kit is a bad > way to start. If a > player finds it's not for them, they're not out very much, and > still have a > self-contained game to play if the mood ever hits them. If they do > get the > bug, then that initial $24 will be a drop in the bucket compared > to what > they'll pay to get into "real" ASL. > > Paratrooper was designed with the large crowd of SL players in > mind. That > crowd (mostly) no longer exists, having likely either already made the > transition to ASL long ago or aging out of the hobby. What still > exists are > some players still playing SL, some who tried it long ago and > decided not to > take the ASL plunge, and a huge flock of potential newbies who've > nevertried any of it. The Starter Kit exists for them and based on > comments on > Consimworld, a number of "rejected ASL long ago"-type players are > considering this option. In a way, the Starter Kit will serve the same > purpose of introducing ASL to these players that SL did for many > of us. > > Paratrooper was a transition method for those already familiar > with the > system. I think it was almost useless for someone with no prior > experience.Prior to the Starter Kit, the only effective way to > learn (from scratch) was > to have an existing player teach you, in which case you might as > well take > the full plunge into BV. I have to say that this may be the first > time I can > remember (at least in the last several years) someone defending > Paratrooperas an intro module to ASL. > > Peter "Self-taught in spite of all the above" Young > Yakima, WA > http://firstfire.blogspot.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Brian Youse" ; "ASL Mailing List" > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:52 AM > Subject: [ASLML] ASLSK vs Partrooper & PI > > > > Let's look at it from your point of view then. If I purchase > ASLSK and > learn the rules therein, what next? Can you sit down with an > opponent and > play any of the hundreds of published scenarios? Not unless that > personwants to teach you how to play. At some point folks are > going to have to > make that decision and invest the money if they want to play the whole > system. So why pay the additional $24? > > > > For most of us, we made the difficult transition from SL to ASL > with BV > and the ASLRB. Back then that was how much of an investment, $80? > Paratrooper came out to help coax those playing SL to ASL and in > itselfadded more rules as you progressed through the Paratrooper > scenarios. But > when we finished with the transition we were versed well enough in > the rules > to start playing any of the ASL scenarios. > > > > If ASLSK gets people interested in playing the full version of > ASL, great. > Congratulations. But what then? I really hope you all suceed, I > just hope > you have the business model in place to back up your ambitions. > > > > C. Kent Henson > > Battlin' Bastard from 'Bama > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Brian Youse > > Date: Thursday, April 1, 2004 10:02 am > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] MMP Stormtroopers-LONG > > > > > > As for the ASLRB reprint, I wouldn't look for it anytime soon. > > > I'm > > > > glad that some people will buy and play ASLSK but I still think > > > we had > > > > a Programed Instruction system in place that would have done the > > > job > > > > with Paratrooper and its Chapter K. > > > > > > Jim Stahler's article has been available on our website for some > > > time, > > > under the ASL Articles section. Here: > > > http://www.multimanpublishing.com/ASL/articles.php It has been > > > there > > > for quite some time. > > > > > > However, I am much more inclined to believe that a person is more > > > likely to take the ASL plunge on a $24 stand-alone product rather > > > than > > > the solution of buying the ASL rulebook ($80), Paratrooper ($30+), > > > several maps ($10 or $24 depending on how you buy them), and > > > downloading the PI off our website. > > > > > > $24 versus $120+ > > > > > > I can't even believe I have to point what certainly seems to be > > > obvious. > > > The only problem with the ASL Starter Kit is that we didn't do it > > > five > > > years ago. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From m_b_h at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 1 09:33:24 2004 From: m_b_h at sbcglobal.net (Michael Handiboe) Date: Thu Apr 1 09:36:41 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions References: <20040401161952.TDIT11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: <045601c4180f$6fc257c0$fb0110ac@computer> I tried hard to envision a snowball as having layers. None of my snowballs ever had no stinkin' "layers". A rock in the middle, perhaps ... :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Michael Handiboe" ; "'ASL Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions > The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full ASL rules wrap over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the transition, it's just added to what is already there. From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Thu Apr 1 10:00:58 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Thu Apr 1 10:03:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results In-Reply-To: <001601c41806$32038b60$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <000d01c41813$499b0d40$6401a8c0@NewDell> > Oh? You've been to one of Pete's tourneys then? I don't think so, but there are holes in my memory for big periods of time which would be reasonably explained by a week-long bender in another country. From gr27134 at charter.net Thu Apr 1 10:50:10 2004 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Thu Apr 1 11:12:06 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions Message-ID: <200404011850.i31IoALL024785@mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net> I think that "onion" would have worked better than "snowball". Onions definitely have layers. Wouldn't smell as nice...well, unless you are using one of the infamous _yellow_ snowballs. And of course those _brown_ snowballs are right out! Down in South Alabama where I grew up, it never snows. Though we did have our own version of the "snowball fight"...the "cowpatty tussle"...believe you me...not a pretty sight!!! Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) > > From: "Michael Handiboe" > Date: 2004/04/01 Thu AM 11:33:24 CST > To: "'ASL Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions > > I tried hard to envision a snowball as having layers. > None of my snowballs ever had no stinkin' "layers". > A rock in the middle, perhaps ... > > :-) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Michael Handiboe" ; "'ASL Mailing List'" > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:19 AM > Subject: Re: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions > > > > The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full ASL rules wrap > over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the transition, > it's just added to what is already there. > > > From geb3 at inter.net Thu Apr 1 16:06:35 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu Apr 1 16:00:42 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet In-Reply-To: <001d01c41809$4315f020$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: There is a counter sheet in HH. It consists of markers for building control, AFV cards, etc... - G -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]On Behalf Of Kenneth Knudsen Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:49 AM To: Aslml@asl-forums.net; Sam Belcher Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet But on the MMP website, it says that there's a countersheet in the HH box. Is that an error then? Kenneth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Belcher" To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the First Edition | Hedgerow Hell. | | Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. | | | | > -----Original Message----- | > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net | > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Michael Handiboe | > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM | > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net | > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | > | > | > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print | > or something? | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "Sam Belcher" | > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; | > | > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM | > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | > | > | > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? | > > | > > There were only a few.... | > > | > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters | > > | > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble | > counters, | > > etc. | > > | > > Sam | > > | > > | > | > | | | From aslwynn at cogeco.ca Thu Apr 1 18:00:49 2004 From: aslwynn at cogeco.ca (Wynn) Date: Thu Apr 1 18:01:00 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet References: <002501c41808$d1e22400$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <004701c41856$51fce9c0$ae56e218@D56LBC31> Cruel, Sam, cruel. Wynn "Proud Owner of Deluxe Rubble from Hell on Wheels" Polnicky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Belcher" To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the First Edition > Hedgerow Hell. > > Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Michael Handiboe > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM > > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print > > or something? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sam Belcher" > > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM > > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? > > > > > > There were only a few.... > > > > > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters > > > > > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble > > counters, > > > etc. > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > From tmorin2454 at comcast.net Thu Apr 1 18:22:28 2004 From: tmorin2454 at comcast.net (tmorin2454@comcast.net) Date: Thu Apr 1 18:22:37 2004 Subject: [ASLML] errata for Dispatches from the Bunker DB041 Message-ID: <040220040222.12239.406CCE640009DE7A00002FCF2200734076FFCBCACBCD91968D9092@comcast.net> Tom, please make sure that this reply of mine also makes it to the Main Mailing List, Thanks again, Vic. In a message dated 4/1/2004 7:50:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, tmorin2454@comcast.net writes: To all Dispatches from the Bunker subscribers, The SAN for the U.S. in "The Killing Ground" was inadvertantly deleted from the scenario by the Publisher program, and we didn't catch the mistake. The U.S. should have a SAN:4. Our apologies to all of our subscribers, as we HATE when errata like this slips through. Anyways, hope you enjoy the scenario. regards, Tom Morin Vic Provost adds: Thanks Tom for posting this for me, I know that this has happened to us one other time in the past (Crisis on the Abucay Line when the OBA SSR got pushed out of its text box). Totally inadvertent, Tom was tweaking something else on the page and Publisher had a similar hic-up, blowing the SAN # right out of the set-up. This after 2 rounds of proofreading, and Tom was printing the final Master Copy of the scenario, so was not looking for something like this to happen. We'll be even more vigilant next issue, and hopefully the Microsoft gremlins won't screw us up again. Again, my apologies, your ASL Comrade, Vic Provost. From rln22 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 1 10:00:43 2004 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Beseler) Date: Thu Apr 1 19:16:58 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hulldown in VBM? Message-ID: Listers, Can a vehicle be hulldown, behind a wall, while in bypass? A4.34, in speaking of INFANTRY bypass, reads; "A wall or hedge in the target hex is not an obstacle to LOS even though the target may be in Bypass on the other side of that same target hex (although its TEM would apply if crossed by the LOS)." Does the fact that LOS traced to a CAFP would only 'come to', but not 'cross' a wall, mean that a wall (or hedge) is not considered when one targets an AFV in bypass? I am having trouble finding a rule or example that explains this. Please help. Yours, Beseler From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 20:08:04 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 20:08:10 2004 Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` In-Reply-To: <043f01c4180f$1377a240$fb0110ac@computer> Message-ID: <000601c41868$19894b30$647ba8c0@samb03> Guys I've been offered a job in Mexico City. Any ASL'ers down there? It's a big move, but its good money. I'll be moving down there after our tourney at Enfilade. (May 28-30 - see dicetower.com for details on the tourney). I'll be doing System Admin work supporting a couple of servers that send about 150 million emails a day. I sure hope there are players down there! Drop me a line. Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 20:10:52 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 20:10:58 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet In-Reply-To: <004701c41856$51fce9c0$ae56e218@D56LBC31> Message-ID: <000d01c41868$7d7547c0$647ba8c0@samb03> Yeah, this was a small April Fool's joke... Sorry. ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Wynn [mailto:aslwynn@cogeco.ca] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:01 PM > To: Sam Belcher; 'Michael Handiboe'; Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > Cruel, Sam, cruel. > > Wynn "Proud Owner of Deluxe Rubble from Hell on Wheels" Polnicky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Belcher" > To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:46 AM > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the > First Edition > > Hedgerow Hell. > > > > Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > > > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of > Michael Handiboe > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM > > > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > > > > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print > > > or something? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Sam Belcher" > > > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM > > > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > > > > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? > > > > > > > > There were only a few.... > > > > > > > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters > > > > > > > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble > > > counters, > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From kmonte at wideopenwest.com Thu Apr 1 20:16:05 2004 From: kmonte at wideopenwest.com (Kenn) Date: Thu Apr 1 20:15:58 2004 Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` In-Reply-To: <000601c41868$19894b30$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <200404020415.i324Fnf24250@pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Is that going to make you Spam Belcher? -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Sam Belcher Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:08 PM To: Aslml@asl-forums.net Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` Guys I've been offered a job in Mexico City. Any ASL'ers down there? It's a big move, but its good money. I'll be moving down there after our tourney at Enfilade. (May 28-30 - see dicetower.com for details on the tourney). I'll be doing System Admin work supporting a couple of servers that send about 150 million emails a day. I sure hope there are players down there! Drop me a line. Sam From sgtono at yahoo.com Thu Apr 1 20:22:00 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Thu Apr 1 20:22:07 2004 Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` In-Reply-To: <000601c41868$19894b30$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <20040402042200.85868.qmail@web20723.mail.yahoo.com> By my calendar it is still April 1st in the US NW so Sam is this the bigger April Fool's joke? Keith --- Sam Belcher wrote: > Guys > > I've been offered a job in Mexico City. Any ASL'ers > down there? > > It's a big move, but its good money. I'll be moving > down there after our > tourney at Enfilade. (May 28-30 - see dicetower.com > for details on the > tourney). > > I'll be doing System Admin work supporting a couple > of servers that send > about 150 million emails a day. > > I sure hope there are players down there! Drop me a > line. > > Sam > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From geb3 at inter.net Thu Apr 1 22:35:40 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu Apr 1 22:29:54 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet In-Reply-To: <000d01c41868$7d7547c0$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: Afraid I swallowed it, too. Watch yer back next year, Sam. - G -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]On Behalf Of Sam Belcher Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:11 PM To: 'Wynn'; 'Michael Handiboe'; Aslml@asl-forums.net Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet Yeah, this was a small April Fool's joke... Sorry. ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Wynn [mailto:aslwynn@cogeco.ca] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:01 PM > To: Sam Belcher; 'Michael Handiboe'; Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > Cruel, Sam, cruel. > > Wynn "Proud Owner of Deluxe Rubble from Hell on Wheels" Polnicky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Belcher" > To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:46 AM > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the > First Edition > > Hedgerow Hell. > > > > Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > > > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of > Michael Handiboe > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM > > > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > > > > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print > > > or something? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Sam Belcher" > > > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM > > > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > > > > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? > > > > > > > > There were only a few.... > > > > > > > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters > > > > > > > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble > > > counters, > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 23:15:30 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 23:15:38 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hulldown in VBM? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c41882$489f21a0$647ba8c0@samb03> > Can a vehicle be hulldown, behind a wall, while in bypass? > > > A4.34, in speaking of INFANTRY bypass, reads; "A wall or > hedge in the target hex is not an obstacle to LOS even > though the target may be in Bypass on the other side of > that same target hex (although its TEM would apply if > crossed by the LOS)." > > > Does the fact that LOS traced to a CAFP would only 'come to', > but not 'cross' a wall, mean that a wall (or hedge) is not > considered when one targets an AFV in bypass? > > I am having trouble finding a rule or example that > explains this. The wall extends all the way to the vertex of the hex - even if the artwork doesn't. And yes, you can be hull down behind the wall (apply the TEM of the wall) while in bypass. ' The wall doesn't _block_ LOS - in other words, its not an "obstacle" to LOS, but its TEM does apply. Make sense? Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 23:28:21 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 23:28:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` In-Reply-To: <000601c41868$19894b30$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <000001c41884$1422ef40$647ba8c0@samb03> Ahem, I have about 10 emails in my inbox so far, but its almost midnight. Time to fess up. This is a hoax, ah... I mean an April Fools Joke. I will not be going to Mexico City to send Spam. :) Sam "Still need a job..." Belcher > -----Original Message----- > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Sam Belcher > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:08 PM > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` > > > Guys > > I've been offered a job in Mexico City. Any ASL'ers down there? > > It's a big move, but its good money. I'll be moving down > there after our tourney at Enfilade. (May 28-30 - see > dicetower.com for details on the tourney). > > I'll be doing System Admin work supporting a couple of > servers that send about 150 million emails a day. > > I sure hope there are players down there! Drop me a line. > > Sam > > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Apr 2 03:02:24 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Fri Apr 2 03:02:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Firefly mystery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:19:27 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >Somebody please point me in the right direction regarding WoA & FKaC Sherman >VC. I have a hand-written note to myself from an ASLML post that I believe >was from Perry (cannot find it anymore) saying that the Firefly VC ID "F" >counter mistakenly shows a BMG, but both my IIC & VC counters from WoA (also >Chap N images), as well as the new FKaC counters show no such error. What's >wrong with my memory? Or, does the problem turn up elsewhere. 'Twas I, not Perry, who pointed out this error. The FKAC counters are fine, the error was on the original WoA counter. If your WoA counter is fine, I can only presume that TAHGC must have fixed the countersheet in a subsequent printing. My counter definitely has the error (you're correct that it doesn't show up in the Ch. N depiction). I purchased WoA in 1989, IIRC, which was when it was released (at least, when it first appeared in Australia). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From mail at cspringer.de Fri Apr 2 04:07:50 2004 From: mail at cspringer.de (Christian Springer) Date: Fri Apr 2 04:06:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Download VASL Message-ID: Hi, is there a way to download VASL with or without webstart to install it on a machine with no internet connectivity ? The archives on vasl.org seem to contain only older versions... thanks Christian From mark at 3rddaysolutions.com Fri Apr 2 04:52:11 2004 From: mark at 3rddaysolutions.com (Mark Robbins) Date: Fri Apr 2 04:52:17 2004 Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` In-Reply-To: <000601c41868$19894b30$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <003201c418b1$5483d360$308427d8@thirdday> Don't drink the water ;-) This is a good one Spam. Opps I meant Sam ------------------------------------------------- "But it's just plain idolatry, when God can't have all of me ... lyrics by Jason Upton" "Revelation comes thru the impartation of information to get you 'in formation' Mark Robbins Messenger me at ThirdDayTribe@hotmail.com Family Website - http://personal.riverusers.com/~thirdday/ My Web/Graphic Design Co - http://www.3rdDaySolutions.com -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Sam Belcher Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:08 PM To: Aslml@asl-forums.net Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` Guys I've been offered a job in Mexico City. Any ASL'ers down there? It's a big move, but its good money. I'll be moving down there after our tourney at Enfilade. (May 28-30 - see dicetower.com for details on the tourney). I'll be doing System Admin work supporting a couple of servers that send about 150 million emails a day. I sure hope there are players down there! Drop me a line. Sam From rjmosher at direcway.com Fri Apr 2 13:15:14 2004 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Fri Apr 2 13:15:44 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Download VASL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040402151441.01cf8f00@pop3.direcway.com> At 06:07 AM 4/2/2004, Christian Springer wrote: >Hi, > >is there a way to download VASL with or without webstart to install it on a >machine with no internet connectivity ? The archives on vasl.org seem to >contain only older versions... > >thanks >Christian Think you are stuck with the webstart thingee. ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From mountainview at westelcom.com Fri Apr 2 15:50:38 2004 From: mountainview at westelcom.com (Mountain View Cottage) Date: Fri Apr 2 15:51:10 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Fw: PERRY-SEZ: A to Q on CE DRM/Height Advantage/Indirect-Fire Message-ID: <005401c4190d$4e073160$058e6b0c@NewhpGeorge> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 5:32 PM Subject: A to Q on CE DRM/Height Advantage/Indirect-Fire > > > > >Subject: CE DRM/Height Advantage/Indirect-Fire > > > > > > > >Cut/Pasted from Romanowski's Site: > > > > > > > >- D5.311: Is the Inherent Crew of a BU OT > > > >- AFV which is hit by (non-Air Burst) > > > >- Indirect Fire Vulnerable? > > > >- > > > >- No. > > > > > > > >Is it safe to say this Perry-Sez effectively precludes > > > >Indirect-Fire from being able to reduce CE DRM > > > >due (solely) to Height Advantage? > > > > > > > > No. HA can reduce CE DRM for both direct and indirect fire -- there is no limitation in either D5.311 or D6.61. (The previous answer should be "Not automatically.".) > > > > > > > > > > > > >In other words, if a MTR at Level 4 fires at a > > > >Carrier (or the above mentioned BU OT AFV, > > > >or even a CE OT AFV) at Level 0 and the > > > >Range = 3, 2, or 1 ("Height Advantage" otherwise > > > >capable of reducing a CE DRM), is the the > > > >Carrier (or BU OT AFV / CE OT AFV) > > > >treated as Unarmored for the attack vs. *it* > > > >(the Vehicle itself, be it Carrier / CE OT AFV / > > > >BU OT AFV). > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > >In short, can Indirect-Fire reduce CE DRM > > > >if it has Height Advantage over an OT AFV? > > > > > Yes, given the right range. > > Sorry for the delay. NP > ....Perry > MMP Thanks, but as you might expect, I don't like it. I'll agree that's what the rules "say", and your ruling is in line with the rules text, but I think it's a "hole", and an oversight. Theoretically, *all* Indirect Fire should get "Height Advantage" due to the nature of the "incoming fire" (from above). It doesn't really have anything to do with LOS/LOF: Consider this: 2 separate MTRs, separately Spotted. Neither MTR has LOS to the Level 0 Ht target. Both are @ Range = 2 (to the target). One is @ Level 4, and therefore qualifies for HA CE DRM Reduction. The other is @ Level 2, and therefore doesn't qualify for HA. It makes no sense to me that the Level 4 MTR gets a CE DRM Reduction (and the Ht itself gets attacked as a softie) solely due to the fact that its rounds are leaving the ground, flying almost straight up into the air and coming almost straight down on the target, from a higher "starting point" than the Level 2 MTR. Both MTRs *LOF* (round trajectory) are nearly, if not in the end almost exactly, indentical, but it's the Level 4 MTR's "higher altititude" that grants the boon, nothing at all to do with actual LOS/LOF. Concurrently, assuming an LOS shot, how does being able to see a candy wrapper on an HT's deck make it any easier to drop a round directly into the Ht? Your ruling assumes HA will *automatically* grant this, but I doubt the chance of that happening by throwing rounds up in the air and hoping they come down near the target (much less actually *in* the target) is any greater with "HA" than if Mortaring from same-level. I can see the benefit/advantage if I'm throwing MG bullets at it - it's obvious - the protective siding has been compromised to my direct fire LOS/LOF, *directly into* it. Lastly, note that *target* AFV HA is clearly NA to Indirect Fire. That make sense - it doesn't matter that I can only see the Turret and/or Superstructure of that Pz IV when I shoot at it with my MTR. The rounds are coming in from above, and can (and do) easily explode right next to the treads and/or land directly onto the hull decking. Nay, I believe the intent of HA & CE Reduction was meant for Direct Fire LOS/LOF only. Again I think this is supported by the C1.55 -1 DRM for OT when dealing with Indirect Fire vs. an AFV. Being OT, it's more vulnerable to Indirect Fire, so you get a -1, but it's still an AFV. "Dropping one in" is more along the lines of a CH, and/or a good low effects DR, combined with that -1. It's rare, but it happens. To automatically grant interior deck hits just becuase the rounds are leaving the ground from a nearby hill or rooftop (and even without the firing weapon having LOS!) is a bit hokey. Whilst awaiting your answer I do recollect (as I mentioned in the earlier thread) having this come up before, and I believe we played it with the advantage, since that's what the rules "allow". I can't, however, recall the outcome. (It was on VASL, a long time ago, and I was an observer of someone else's game.) I will have no problem playing it this way as the Ht owner, but I wil not be employing it as the MTR owner. Christopher Fleury Sgt. Meikle's Bunker Mountain View Cottage Lewis, NY USS Iowa; BB-61 Camp Dudley #12557 From morrisgj at mscd.edu Fri Apr 2 18:05:13 2004 From: morrisgj at mscd.edu (morrisgj@mscd.edu) Date: Fri Apr 2 18:07:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Night Question Message-ID: <2bacd26da0.26da02bacd@mscd.edu> Hello All: Situation: Night scenario, with NVR = 3. Allied units fire off starshell that inadvertantly places them within the illumination zone. Enemy Axis unit uses non-AM to first enter adjacent (non-illuminated) hex, then continue and enter the concealed Allied unit's hex for the concealment bump dance. Naturally the Axis unit loses "?" status, as does one (or more) Allied units. Likewise, the Axis unit gets bumped back to the non-illuminated adjacent hex it had just moved from. Can the Allied player now D1F vs. the Axis unit in the non-illuminated adjacent hex? If yes, is the D1F halved as Area Fire (aside from being doubled for PBF)? Thanks in advance, Gerry From fred at sdccu.net Fri Apr 2 20:59:35 2004 From: fred at sdccu.net (Fred Timm) Date: Fri Apr 2 21:16:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Night Question In-Reply-To: <2bacd26da0.26da02bacd@mscd.edu> References: <2bacd26da0.26da02bacd@mscd.edu> Message-ID: <406E44B7.7000701@sdccu.net> No, you can not fire from an illuminated location to an ADJACENT non-illuminated location unless the other location has gunflashes. Fred morrisgj@mscd.edu wrote: > Hello All: > > Situation: > Night scenario, with NVR = 3. > Allied units fire off starshell that inadvertantly places them within > the illumination zone. Enemy Axis unit uses non-AM to first enter > adjacent (non-illuminated) hex, then continue and enter the concealed > Allied unit's hex for the concealment bump dance. Naturally the Axis > unit loses "?" status, as does one (or more) Allied units. Likewise, > the Axis unit gets bumped back to the non-illuminated adjacent hex it > had just moved from. > > Can the Allied player now D1F vs. the Axis unit > in the non-illuminated adjacent hex? If yes, is the D1F halved as Area > Fire (aside from being doubled for PBF)? > > Thanks in advance, > > Gerry > > > > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Apr 3 00:03:58 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat Apr 3 00:04:31 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Off-Topic: Game search Message-ID: Nothing to do with ASL, but we're all boardgamers here: I'm looking for a copy of the Gamers "This Hallowed Ground", which has been out of print for a few years now. If anyone can direct me to a game store that still has stock (and will deal with a customer in Australia), or if you can otherwise assist me, I'd love to hear from you. No, E-Bay is not an option. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From tmorin2454 at comcast.net Sat Apr 3 06:31:08 2004 From: tmorin2454 at comcast.net (tmorin2454@comcast.net) Date: Sat Apr 3 06:31:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Looking for Laurent Cunin(fwd) Message-ID: <040320041431.7393.406ECAAC00062A1E00001CE12200734830FFCBCACBCD91968D9092@comcast.net> Fowarded for Carl Nogueira...... ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: Chnogueira@aol.com To: yasl@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Yasl] RE: Favor Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 02:35:37 EST Guys, Could someone with access to the ASLML, please ask if a Laurent Cunnin could get in touch with me, at my AOL address? That address is of course the chnogueira@aol.com Thanks, Carl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Come to Nor'easter 2004, March 19th-21st! For more details visit: http://asl.yankeegamers.org Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yasl/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: yasl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From janked at tampabay.rr.com Sat Apr 3 06:48:59 2004 From: janked at tampabay.rr.com (Wes Neal) Date: Sat Apr 3 06:49:23 2004 Subject: [ASLML] VASL 4.1 RB board problem Message-ID: <003401c4198a$cca5b690$6401a8c0@BigDELL> Not sure what is happening but when I load a log for a RB or do a new scenario and use the RB map, but it is getting stretched to weird proportions. I have the newest RB map from www.vasl.org and the newest 4.1.2 version of VASL so I am not sure what is going on. Any ideas? Thanks Wes From janked at tampabay.rr.com Sat Apr 3 06:48:59 2004 From: janked at tampabay.rr.com (Wes Neal) Date: Sat Apr 3 06:49:25 2004 Subject: [ASLML] VASL 4.1 RB board problem Message-ID: <003401c4198a$cca5b690$6401a8c0@BigDELL> Not sure what is happening but when I load a log for a RB or do a new scenario and use the RB map, but it is getting stretched to weird proportions. I have the newest RB map from www.vasl.org and the newest 4.1.2 version of VASL so I am not sure what is going on. Any ideas? Thanks Wes From swfancher at mindspring.com Sat Apr 3 06:20:56 2004 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Sat Apr 3 07:03:31 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Looking for Laurent Cunin Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040403091905.01e3f4c8@mindspring.com> Laurent Cunin - haven't seen you on the list for a while, but if you are lurking out there, Carl Nogueira would like you to contact him directly at: chnogueira@aol.com Others - please pardon the interruption. From swfancher at mindspring.com Sat Apr 3 06:20:56 2004 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Sat Apr 3 07:03:33 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Looking for Laurent Cunin Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040403091905.01e3f4c8@mindspring.com> Laurent Cunin - haven't seen you on the list for a while, but if you are lurking out there, Carl Nogueira would like you to contact him directly at: chnogueira@aol.com Others - please pardon the interruption. From tball at cc.UManitoba.CA Sat Apr 3 07:27:44 2004 From: tball at cc.UManitoba.CA (Blake Ball) Date: Sat Apr 3 07:28:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] 2004 CASLO 6 Month Warning! Message-ID: <000001c41990$373f3210$fb114d18@terrygrfcpjets> Hey Listeroonies..... This is just a heads-up that the Canadian ASL Open is fast approaching. The Canadian ASL Open: CASLO 2004 Date : September 17th to 19th 2004 Place: The Viscount Gort Hotel, Winnipeg, Manitoba Format: Five rounds starting at 1:00 PM Friday, Ending at 3 PM Sunday (2 Fri, 2 Sat, 1 Sun) Swiss Style seeding, using the Chicago point system to determine a winner. Last years Tournament had 25 attendees including the "best" of the riff-raff that make up the Canadian ASL Scene. Those of you who have been to prior CASLO's know the fun and great times that occur. Don't forget the extra's: T-Shirts, Coffee Mugs, and of course the (in)famous never-ending CASLO Beer Mugs. A meet and greet will be held the Thursday eve prior to the tourney for the early-birds just to get warmed up for all the dice rolling and gunnin' to follow. Registration info and scenario lists coming soon! For further info see the CASLO Website (link on top left) http://members.shaw.ca/casla/ Or contact any of the friendly tournament staff: Blake Ball tball@cc.umanitoba.ca Jim McLeod jmmcleod@mb.sympatico.ca Bill Bird wbird10@shaw.ca Blake From geb3 at inter.net Sat Apr 3 08:05:44 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Sat Apr 3 08:00:13 2004 Subject: [ASLML] UPDATE: Starter Kit Product Review In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I'm back from Kinko's this afternoon and the cardstock mapsheets laminated as well as I expected they would. Although nearly as light as unmounted maps, they are much sturdier and don't curl or flop around. From both cost and quality perspectives, I think this is the gamer's best choice for a board surface. Another interesting touch that I forgot to mention the other day is the use of reverse typeface for the hex grid coordinates printed on dark areas, making them much more legible. Nice move. I should also note that some good people pointed out sources in which Friedrich von Paulus' name had been shortened to "Paulus." Surprisingly, one of the books was within arm's reach on my own shelf, and yet this usage has never registered. It's amazing the little blanks the mind fills in for you automatically. Other errata from the product review: - Replace the word "Show" with "ASLOK" in the section about the countersheet. Enjoy your Saturday, Europe and North America. I've gotta catch 40 winks. George Bates Yokohama, Japan Now in progress: J53 "Setting The Stage", German vs. David Olie SASL M13 "Recon", Free French vs. German ENEMY From mlb705 at juno.com Sat Apr 3 12:06:58 2004 From: mlb705 at juno.com (Mark L Brooks) Date: Sat Apr 3 12:04:57 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit Message-ID: <20040403.140700.-288589.1.mlb705@juno.com> Will there be a part 2 to the starter kit to introduce additional aspects of ASL? Mark From spinny at spinland.biz Sat Apr 3 12:09:48 2004 From: spinny at spinland.biz (Mark Dyson) Date: Sat Apr 3 12:10:20 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit References: <20040403.140700.-288589.1.mlb705@juno.com> Message-ID: <000401c419b7$9dff4b80$6501a8c0@ziphead> >From what I understand there'll be a part 2 introducing Ordnance, and a part 3 introducing Vehicles -- predicated on the success of #1. From the sales reports methinks we can count on seeing them both. :-) Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark L Brooks" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit > Will there be a part 2 to the starter kit to introduce additional aspects > of ASL? > > Mark > > > > From singleman5 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 2 22:34:38 2004 From: singleman5 at hotmail.com (David) Date: Sat Apr 3 16:34:32 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Re: ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions References: <20040401161952.TDIT11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: wrote in message news:20040401161952.TDIT11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net... > The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full ASL rules wrap over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the transition, it's just added to what is already there. It seems to me the control rules are changed in the SK so that you only control what you physically occupy and not what you move thru, right? From rln22 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 3 10:53:21 2004 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Beseler) Date: Sat Apr 3 16:34:34 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Hulldown in VBM? References: <001401c41882$489f21a0$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: Sam Belcher writes: > > > Can a vehicle be hulldown, behind a wall, while in bypass? > > > The wall extends all the way to the vertex of the hex - even if the artwork > doesn't. And yes, you can be hull down behind the wall (apply the TEM of the > wall) while in bypass. ' > > The wall doesn't _block_ LOS - in other words, its not an "obstacle" to LOS, > but its TEM does apply. > > Make sense? > > Sam > > > Sam, It makes some 'common sense', but makes no sense with regard to how to apply the rules. eg: Facing the enemy, a tank moves into bp up alongside the left side of a building. A wall is infront of the tank, and extends to the vertex just off its left front fender. The hexside parralleling the Left side of the tank is wide open. At what point do we judge that shots coming from the front, front left, then directly from the left, 'cross' the wall vertex? It seems awfully arbitrary, as again, shots coming from the left side (and indeed the rear) are still traced to the same 'walled' vertex in front of the bypassing vehicle. Is there any rule that explicitly states how to use a wall for a vehicle in bp? Beseler. From rln22 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 3 11:08:39 2004 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Beseler) Date: Sat Apr 3 16:34:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] CC Infiltration: Perry hath spoken... Message-ID: >Thus, my three closely related questions: (1) If, in a non-ambush >situation, the ATTACKER rolls an original 2, if he chooses to withdraw all >units, must he do so immediately, thus leaving the enemy unscathed? (2) If >he elects to stay, in order to effect the usually lethal result, must he >suffer an attack from the eliminated DEFENDER, as per normally simultaneous >CC? (3) If the ATTACKER chose to \'resolve\' the original 2 as a CC attack, >has he lost the option of withdrawing (save a \'12\' rolled by the >DEFENDER)? > 1) No. 2) Not if he Withdraws first. 3) No. ....Perry MMP Two last comments: as Probst pointed out, an important way in which infiltration differs from an ambush attack is the 'NECESSITY' of withdrawal, for, if you don't, you get attacked! Last but not least, as I believe Bakkan asked, in A18.12, the line 'Unless one or both sides Withdraw due to Infiltration'. How can both sides withdraw due to infiltration? Just couldn't come up with the die rolls that would make it possible. Sure you can somehow though... Yours, Beseler From pete at vftt.co.uk Sat Apr 3 15:12:20 2004 From: pete at vftt.co.uk (Pete Phillipps) Date: Sat Apr 3 16:34:36 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now Message-ID: <000001c419d1$1e645e50$c34bfea9@pete700> Hi Everyone, A bit late, but the new VFTT is now available from the VFTT web site at www.vftt.co.uk/vftt54.pdf. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Sat Apr 3 17:08:55 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Sat Apr 3 17:09:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Re: ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c419e1$682afc00$647ba8c0@samb03> > wrote in message > > > > The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full > ASL rules > > wrap > over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the > transition, it's just added to what is already there. David wrote: > It seems to me the control rules are changed in the SK so > that you only control what you physically occupy and not what > you move thru, right? No, the definition of "Control" in the starter kit is "A Good Order Infantry MMC gains control of the hex or building it occupies without the presence of an enemy unit..." There isn't any "Mopping Up" in the starter kit, but you gain control just like ASL. What may not be obvious is that once you gain control, you retain it when you leave the building. Just like ASL. BTW, when you "move through" a building, you are physically occupying it. What is perhaps unclear is that you control the entire building by being the only occupant - and assuming you are a good order MMC infantry unit. From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Apr 3 17:38:20 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat Apr 3 17:38:58 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Hulldown in VBM? In-Reply-To: References: <001401c41882$489f21a0$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:53:21 +0000 (UTC), Beseler wrote: >It makes some 'common sense', but makes no sense with regard to how to apply >the rules. Really? It's always seemed very straight-forward to me. >eg: Facing the enemy, a tank moves into bp up alongside the left side of a >building. > A wall is infront of the tank, and extends to the vertex just off its left front > fender. The hexside parralleling the Left side of the tank is wide open. > At what point do we judge that >shots coming >from the front, front left, then directly from the left, 'cross' the wall vertex? You'll need to be a lot more precise than that if you want meaningful assistance. Please quote a couple of actual hex coordinates. The general answer, however, is if the LOS crosses the wall, then it crosses the wall. If it crosses the vertex, then it still crosses the wall (because the wall always extends to the vertex). >Is there any rule that explicitly states how to use a wall for a vehicle in bp? That would be B9.2 et al (i.e., the fact that the vehicle is in bypass is pretty much irrelevant; the wall rules work exactly the same). You may find the following Perry Sez of assistance: *** > Rule:B9.1 > Question:B9.1 "The thick terrain depiction, as well as the hexside itself >(inclusive of vertices), represents the wall/hedge and will affect any LOS >through it ...." > > Is it correct to conclude that *any* fire at a hedge/wall vertex coming >from *outside that hex* (i.e., crossing no other hexside of that hex) must >"cross the wall", no matter what angle it's coming from, even if the >hedge/wall only exists along one hexside of the three meeting at that >vertex? > > (This is significant when attacking a bypassing unit where there is a >hedge/wall at that vertex, assuming that the bypassing unit would otherwise >qualify for Wall Advantage.) I think I am answering your question when I say: For units bypassing a wall/hedge hexside, that wall/hedge TEM would only apply if the LOS traced to the target vertex passes through a hex that shares that wall/hedge hexside with the target hex. ....Perry MMP *** ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ziggy had Garfield neutered? Now that's funny!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Sat Apr 3 17:46:34 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Sat Apr 3 17:47:06 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Hulldown in VBM? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c419e6$a9ae4740$647ba8c0@samb03> Beseler writes: > eg: Facing the enemy, a tank moves into bp up alongside the > left side of a > building. > A wall is infront of the tank, and extends to the vertex > just off its left front fender. The hexside parralleling > the Left side of the tank is wide open. At what point do we > judge that > shots coming > from the front, front left, then directly from the left, > 'cross' the wall vertex? Lets take a specific hex. Look at 3T3. Assume an AFV in T3 in bypass along the T3/S3 hexside. (There is a wall on the T2/T3 hexside.) The tank in 3T3 would be hull down to fire from an enemy AFV in bypass in 3T1 on the T1/U2 hexside. In this case, the LOS is traced exactly through the end of the wall. Per the rules, the wall extends to the end of the hexside and includes fire traced right down the hexside..... The tank would be hull down to fire coming from U2. The fire crosses the wall hexside that the tank is claiming Wall Advantage on... But the tank in 3T3 would not be hull down to fire from S1 or T1. Even though the LOS is traced to the vertex at S3/T3/T2 the fire is coming from "outside" the wall - i.e. not across the T2/T3 wall. This is how I understand it, I was unable to find a specific example in the rules that spells it out - it may be there, but I was not able to find it. Sam From geb3 at inter.net Sun Apr 4 08:43:42 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Sun Apr 4 08:38:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] AARs: AP12 "Cream of the Crop" & T16 "Strayer's Strays" (long) Message-ID: Spilt a double-header with Chang Dong-Il two weeks ago Saturday. Here's how it all went down. AP12 "Cream of the Crop" This is perhaps the sloppiest game I have played since picking up ASL again about four years ago. Saying this does not take away from Dong-Il's strong play. He did everything the Russian needs to do to win. Here's a summary of lessons learned as the German. VC are control of majority of building hexes (all wood, L0) in the board 46 town. German has 3 choices of approach for attack; through a mix of orchard, grain fields and scattered woods on the left, over fairly open ground in the center, or up the woods road on board 42 to strike at the right flank. Dong-Il spread his forces pretty evenly and in depth across the center, with an outpost contingent in the board 42 church on the right. I think everybody in his setup was eligible for concealment at start. The KV was off alone on the left in a board 42 wheatfield. I choose to send most of my force up the center right, using the bits of grain and the StuGs as cover to approach the board 46 outbuildings and the church and use them as stepping stones into the village. I positioned about 4 squads, an LMG the 8-1 and an 8-0 adjacent to the board 42 woods road with the idea of double-timing unhindered deep into the Russian left rear, there linking up with units coming out of the churchyard and perhaps cutting some rout paths. Probably this was not a bad idea, although Dong-Il later advocated leaving at least a token force on the left to keep the Soviets nervous about me rushing in and grabbing unattended locations on that flank. The problem is, I wasn't paying attention to the details and thinking about what I'd need to do when I got where I was going. Somehow, I managed to overlook the 50mm MTR when pulling my OB. This was badly needed FP, and with 3RoF, almost a guaranteed CH at some time during the game. I don't know how I did this, MTRs are my favorite weapon. On top of that, the ATR should have gone with the group up the woods road. I thought it would be useful immobilizing the KV, but of course I hadn't realized that this was impossible. On the other hand, it could have shredded T60s quite nicely, and since the team heading up the right flank was going to reach position on Turn 3, it was stupid not to give them some AT capability. Adding a StuG to that group would have been smart, too. The attack got off on the right foot as I pushed into the churchyard and Dong-Il retreated from it. I also got a foothold in the forward outbuildings with the help of liberal smoke from the StuGs, but things went very badly from there. The KV chugged over from board 43 to confront the StuGs, and as I've already noted we missed the fact that the German is not eligible for HEAT until almost a year later. This led to an attempt to engage the Russian beast. The AGs danced around the KV, bopping in for BFF shots and trying for deliberate immobilization, then using motion attempts and sDs to try and stay out of his sights. By midgame, all I had to show for this was one burning wreck and another StuG out of AP. People, do not let yourselves be misled by the scenario prelude and aftermath!!! The proper approach to ridding yourself of the heavy Ivan is to have a StuG smoke his hex (either PFPh or a sD7 drive-thru) and rush him with a couple squads (use 468s to better pass the PAATC; maybe add a leader to make it a surer kill). By T4 I was definitely losing momentum. The StuGs split up to hunt more lightly armored targets and the one the KV followed eventually managed an immobilization shot, but could not escape the 76mm AP shells as it attempted a smoky getaway and gave up the ghost. My troops had linked up on the right but were largely pinned down now that the T60s had arrived. Worse, casualties were increasing far too quickly, especially in the center. Dong-Il was playing a smart game of skulk and defensive fire, doing a good job of rotating unconcealed units out and newly concealed units in. His DFF shots were picking up K/# results with nagging frequency. At first I my attacks were also yielding casualties, but when I advanced into CC with a pinned squad, didn't get ambush and then got wiped out (aaaaarrrrggghh!), I fell way behind him with 3.5 squads out of the game and no flanking position to show for it. My remaining StuG used ESB to get behind his T60 platoon and take out two of the little pests, but because it was immobilized it too was lost in CC. With losses too high to accomplish the mission, I conceded at the end of T6(G). This is a great early war combined arms simulation. I want another shot at it as the Germans just to get all these things right, but it is clearly an equal challenge for both sides and I'd be happy in the Soviet seat, too. T16 "Strayer's Strays" Dong-Il and I had another 3 hours free, so I evened my record against him with this quickie. This is an old General SL scenario converted to ASL in the tournament series that includes "Gavin Take" and numerous other light classics. It also would make a great ASL SK scenario except for the dmMMG, German OB "?" and lack of L1 and L2 buildings. To allow Grasshopper to join in the fun using the rules he knows, give the US an assembled MMG, but forbid them to double-time on T1, and give the squareheads an 8-1 & LMG. Restricting the area in play to the A - Z hexrows might also be in order. This is the swiftly-wielded, elite American paratrooper hot knife against soft, low-grade German butter. However, the US gets just 4 turns to get at least 12VP across the 10 hexes of the board 6 manor house grounds. That's 6 of his 8 squads, with 3 more VP worth of leaders. Since the US will be able to concentrate his firepower at a single entry point to force his way through, as the German I understood that I could guarantee myself a loss with a bad setup. Most of this AAR will focus on that problem. A couple of obvious things first. A 467 each in N5L2 & M6L2 can cover nearly the entire board and deny a lot of open ground. The next to worthless conscripts are more useful in their role of speedbumps in when in HS form. Better to be fanned-out if you only have 3MF, so the pre-game German deployments created four 236 blockers to cover more ground and hopefully delay US units until the spread-out defense can collapse on the paras' point of attack. Although the German doesn't have too much ground to give, it doesn't pay to set up any nearer than hexes numbered 7, or the wicked US player will simply run around you, fill you full of nassssty assault fire and capture you when you rout, thus neatly solving his exit VP problem. The only exception might be K8 at the back of the 3-hex building to keep the paras honest. One other little German advantage that I pretty much spaced was their inherent SW. Not a single LMG to be found in this bunch of re-treads, but get a dr of 1 or 2 and you can put a rocket through the window of any building the Amis want to hide in or make them feel less safe behind a wall. Even the foreign "Freiwilliger" and old men & boys of the Volksies can use these babies w/o penalty. Just be sure you fire your IFP first, because a PF check dr of 6 will pin you. Always nice to have options. With these things in mind I dropped a 447 in the woods line in front of the grain on the far left, and a 467 at the head of the rear string of woods on the left side of the road to cover what N5L2 couldn't reach. Another 447 went behind the wall at the end of the orchard to supplement coverage on the far right. I scattered the remaining units to cover lines of approach between, trying to create some depth and interlocking fields of fire. Probably the one thing I could have done better was to create a "mobile reserve" that would be located in the center rear and rushed to the point of attacked. Dong-Il's post-game recommendation was a 467 & leader around T3 and a 447 & leader near N3. I think he's right. As it was, with a bit of luck my positioning was good enough to delay the paras and pull out a victory. Dong-Il picked the enclosed orchard which dominates the German right as his crossing point, which is where I would have gone, too, since it cuts FFMO and provides hindrances against FFNAM at the cost of only 1 MF per hex. In retrospect, I was actually a little light on my right side because of the two 467s I had invested in the manor house. Fortunately, there were no big holes torn in my line in T1(A), and I kept concealment except for one brokie who routed to the K4 outbuilding near a leader I hoped could get him up in time for the next US rush. My half of the first turn had everything in the orchard slowly dropping back to the rear wall to organize a defense line. Probably most of the units on the far left would not make it into play, but nevertheless I rushed them all pell-mell toward the back side of the manor house. A few units center forward slowly advanced to good DFF positions on the US right flank. The game was decided in T2(A). First, Dong-Il pushed his HSs into me to strip concealment from my 447, dummy stack and 236 in the orchard and along the wall . I held fire to see where the squads were going, but my first shots failed to yield results. Then Dong-Il got greedy. He walked two 747s and an 8-1 out of the J8 building into the LoS of a concealed 447 on the hedge in front of the manor house. These Volksgrenadiers dropped their camo and put down a wicked 4FP+0 shot that mortally wounded the 8-1 when Dong-Il boxed the MC. 4 DRs later and the two squads were back in J8, upside down and squealing under a blue and white counter. 6VP stopped in their tracks, 2 permanently. I felt better after having suffered through an uncanny number of twos, threes and fours on DFF shots in the previous game. Dong-Il's luck did not get better in CC. He hopped a number of HSs into both the 447 and 236 hexes but failed to get kills. When we got around to the T2(G) rally phase and his 8-0 failed to raise either pile of quivering paratrooper jelly, Dong-Il looked at the number of VP he had tied-up, then counted the hexes to where my cavalry would be (not just toward the exits, but also those who could advance in to the J8 building) at the end of the turn, decided his chances had slipped away and threw in the towel. I imagine that a lot of playings of this scenario never make it to the final turn (there are only four) because one side or the other makes a mistake from which it is impossible to recover. Some might say there's too much riding on a single roll of the dice, but my feeling is that in a game like this you want to minimize the number of times you have to leave things to chance, and when you do venture to risk something make sure the odds are heavily in your favor. Like golf or tennis, if you want to drink for free afterward, make fewer errors than your opponent does. Well, I hope this generates some list activity. Been far too little traffic the past several days and some of that was less than grown-up. Look forward to seeing what happens after you guys in later time zones get done with coffee and the funny papers. Good night! George Bates Yokohama, Japan Now in progress: J53 "Setting The Stage", German vs. David Olie SASL M13 "Recon", Free French vs. German ENEMY From john_provan at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 4 07:37:00 2004 From: john_provan at sbcglobal.net (John Provan) Date: Sun Apr 4 10:22:59 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Michael Pierzchala Message-ID: <20040404143700.13653.qmail@web80301.mail.yahoo.com> Can you report in - trying to get you in contact with your next opponent. John Provan From belisarius at dsl.pipex.com Sun Apr 4 10:49:55 2004 From: belisarius at dsl.pipex.com (Andy McMaster) Date: Sun Apr 4 10:50:33 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Test Message-ID: <200404041849.55403.belisarius@dsl.pipex.com> Please ignore - just trying out how to post! Cheers Andy -- "Do not despise the snake for having no horns for who is to say it will not become a dragon" From belisarius at dsl.pipex.com Sun Apr 4 10:43:55 2004 From: belisarius at dsl.pipex.com (Andy McMaster) Date: Sun Apr 4 10:51:01 2004 Subject: [ASLML] TEST Message-ID: Please ignore. Trying to work out how to post! Andy -- "Do not despise the snake for having no horns for who is to say it will not become a dragon" From janusz.maxe at unf.se Mon Apr 5 02:16:16 2004 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Mon Apr 5 02:20:33 2004 Subject: SV: [ASLML] AARs: AP12 "Cream of the Crop" & T16 "Strayer's Strays"(long) Message-ID: <5A75A637377A4249B83ACA0BC0510B5D33B57D@sesob03.sobernet.net> > The AGs danced around the KV, > bopping in for BFF > shots and trying for deliberate immobilization, then using > motion attempts > and sDs to try and stay out of his sights. Nice AAR, George. Easy to read and to follow. BTW, you can't use motion attempts vs an enemy unit that starts the MPh in your LOS. Must be a new unit entering LOS, but infantry will do nicely, of course Janusz From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Apr 5 02:39:20 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon Apr 5 02:40:21 2004 Subject: [ASLML] AARs: AP12 "Cream of the Crop" & T16 "Strayer's Strays" (long) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41a270popu15gpdsc9cersa9qd7p57tubr@4ax.com> On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 00:43:42 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >One other little German advantage that I pretty much spaced was their >inherent SW. Not a single LMG to be found in this bunch of re-treads, but >get a dr of 1 or 2 and you can put a rocket through the window of any >building the Amis want to hide in or make them feel less safe behind a wall. >Even the foreign "Freiwilliger" and old men & boys of the Volksies can use >these babies w/o penalty. Just be sure you fire your IFP first, because a >PF check dr of 6 will pin you. Always nice to have options. Of course, the catch with firing your IFP first is that you might cower, and thus lose your PF option altogether. Which is worse? On a similar note, too many people forget that their US squads can lob WP with relative ease, making them more dangerous than might be expected if they get up close. (Other nationalities have WP grenades too, but only the US have them in decent quantities.) I've found these to be particularly useful when fighting through bocage. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ziggy had Garfield neutered? Now that's funny!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From doralin at hf.rim.or.jp Mon Apr 5 03:19:58 2004 From: doralin at hf.rim.or.jp (dora) Date: Mon Apr 5 03:24:40 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: AARs: AP12 "Cream of the Crop" & T16 "Strayer's Strays" (long) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <407132CE.9020708@hf.rim.or.jp> George Bates wrote: > Somehow, I managed to overlook the 50mm >MTR when pulling my OB. This was badly needed FP, and with 3RoF, almost a >guaranteed CH at some time during the game. I don't know how I did this, >MTRs are my favorite weapon. > Yes, sure, George, I was seriously guessing where your MTR was until you found it on your scenario card's OB area. >The game was decided in T2(A). First, Dong-Il pushed his HSs into me to >strip concealment from my 447, dummy stack and 236 in the orchard and along >the wall . I held fire to see where the squads were going, but my first >shots failed to yield results. Then Dong-Il got greedy. He walked two 747s >and an 8-1 out of the J8 building into the LoS of a concealed 447 on the >hedge in front of the manor house. These Volksgrenadiers dropped their camo >and put down a wicked 4FP+0 shot that mortally wounded the 8-1 when Dong-Il >boxed the MC. 4 DRs later and the two squads were back in J8, upside down >and squealing under a blue and white counter. 6VP stopped in their tracks, >2 permanently. I felt better after having suffered through an uncanny >number of twos, threes and fours on DFF shots in the previous game. > George, your fire was 2 flat. Before that happened, I made your squad fire upon my HS. That was SFF. If it had been 4 flat fire, I haven't decided to undergo your fire. I thought that I was little bit advantageous after turn 1 Because you had only two good order squads available in your right. And I wanted to make the advantage decisive. In order to get a good advance fire position against your squad behind wall, I just wanted to save only one MF. But the God said that I was greed. You rolled . & : and I rolle ::: & ::: for my leader's 1MC. Now I know that I had to detour my stack through SFF immune area. Dong-Il "the natural enemy of George Bate" Chang From ian.pollard831 at ntlworld.com Mon Apr 5 05:14:19 2004 From: ian.pollard831 at ntlworld.com (Ian Pollard) Date: Mon Apr 5 05:15:39 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results In-Reply-To: <7F332A8009EE5D4CB62C87717A3498A1042570@exchange-be1.lancs.ac.uk> Message-ID: <000001c41b07$89fdd010$b4356651@Main> Your welcome Wayne, hopefully when we next meet at Intensive you'll be able to out-dice (well preferably out-play) me. Looking forward to Bournemouth myself. -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Kelly, Wayne Sent: 01 April 2004 12:13 To: pete@vftt.co.uk; ASL Mailing List Subject: RE: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results I concur. Nice one Pete. Great tournament and a very friendly bunch. Took pity on us newbies, cheers! Thanks to Ian for the Armour Tutorial despite us being diced! Looking forward to Bournemouth. Thanks Wayne -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]On Behalf Of David Schofield Sent: 01 April 2004 12:00 To: 'pete@vftt.co.uk'; ASL Mailing List Subject: RE: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Great tournament Pete. Well organised and great fun. Cheers David -----Original Message----- From: Pete Phillipps [mailto:pete@vftt.co.uk] Sent: 30 March 2004 23:35 To: ASL Mailing List Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Hi Everyone, Just back from the HEROES 2004 ASL weekend in Blackpool, and the results are as follows: Tournament champion, with a 5-0 record was Toby Pilling, who wins a framed certificate and a cheque for ?75. Worst player, with a 0-5 record was Nigel Blair, who wins a copy of the ASL Starter Kit - hopefully he'll improve in time for INTENSIVE FIRE! The snake-eyes prize was won by Toby Pilling, who rolled 9 snakes. He walked away with ?2. The box-cars prize was won by Paul Case, who rolled 15 in his game. He knew he was gonna have a bad game as he rolled 8 of them on the first turn! Needless to say he didn't win! But he did win ?12. A good time was had by all, including 8 tournament newbies out of 35 attendees, who all are planning on coming to INTENSIVE FIRE. Which is 29 - 31 October 2004 in Bournemouth. HEROES 2005 is pencilled in for the weekend 25 - 27 March 2005. A full report of this year's event will be in VFTT55, which I hope to have out at the start of May. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 From ian.pollard831 at ntlworld.com Mon Apr 5 05:16:43 2004 From: ian.pollard831 at ntlworld.com (Ian Pollard) Date: Mon Apr 5 05:17:57 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results In-Reply-To: <000001c416a7$32b308c0$c34bfea9@pete700> Message-ID: <000101c41b07$df6ead30$b4356651@Main> Had a great time as usual Pete, although I still think it was a fix putting me and Paul Case against each other in the first round...you KNOW how we love to duke it out for the booby prize. Will get the pics to you by mid month and will sort out web site asap. Cheers Ian Once Bitten Twice Shy Three Times...........Well that's me folks -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Pete Phillipps Sent: 30 March 2004 23:35 To: ASL Mailing List Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Hi Everyone, Just back from the HEROES 2004 ASL weekend in Blackpool, and the results are as follows: Tournament champion, with a 5-0 record was Toby Pilling, who wins a framed certificate and a cheque for ?75. Worst player, with a 0-5 record was Nigel Blair, who wins a copy of the ASL Starter Kit - hopefully he'll improve in time for INTENSIVE FIRE! The snake-eyes prize was won by Toby Pilling, who rolled 9 snakes. He walked away with ?2. The box-cars prize was won by Paul Case, who rolled 15 in his game. He knew he was gonna have a bad game as he rolled 8 of them on the first turn! Needless to say he didn't win! But he did win ?12. A good time was had by all, including 8 tournament newbies out of 35 attendees, who all are planning on coming to INTENSIVE FIRE. Which is 29 - 31 October 2004 in Bournemouth. HEROES 2005 is pencilled in for the weekend 25 - 27 March 2005. A full report of this year's event will be in VFTT55, which I hope to have out at the start of May. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 From ASL726 at aol.com Mon Apr 5 05:19:58 2004 From: ASL726 at aol.com (ASL726@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 5 05:21:02 2004 Subject: [ASLML] PRIZE LIST FOR NY STATE ASL CHAMPIONSHI[P Message-ID: <4825E919.46641F8F.00040FC3@aol.com> List-o-maniacs, Here's what's up for grabs at the upcoming NY State ASL Championship on December 4-5. 1st Prize...A military diorama depicting a British 25 pounder, caisson and crew in a sangar in North Afrika. 2nd prize...a new shrink-wrapped copy of AFRIKA KORPS ...a panzer grenadier game. 3rd prize...an MMP gift certificate for $25 and a copy of The Coldest War by James Brady 4th prize...a $20 CH gift certificate and a copy of Invasion...the alternate history of the German invasion of England by Kenneth Macksey. 5th prize...a $20 CH gift certificate and a copy of A Plague Upon Humanity...the secret genocide of Axis Japan's germ warfare operation by Daniel Barenblatt. 6th prize...a $20 CH gift certificate and a copy of Sailors To The End...the deadly fire on the USS Forrestal and the heroes who fought it by A.Freeman SPECIAL PRIZES...SPECIAL PRIZES...SPECIAL PRIZES... One lucky attendee will walk away with a never used copy of the classic Avalon Hill game that started it all... PANZERBLITZ ...This 1970 game only has a few counters punched and has never been played! ...BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! Another lucky attendee will walk way with a never used copy of Avalon Hill's ORIGINS OF WWII ...This 1971 game has never been played, though the counters were punched and placed into seperate envelopes. As many as 8 players will leave with valuable prizes. With a field of at least 32 expected, 25% will win. Make plans today to be there for all the fun and all the prizes at The First Annual NY State ASL Championship on Dec 4-5 azt The Best Western Sovereign in Albany NY. Joe Leoce From domorich at sprintmail.com Sun Apr 4 13:15:36 2004 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (rich domovic) Date: Mon Apr 5 07:43:20 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual Message-ID: Can DC toting squad in a building next to a bridge (DASL hex dF2, bridge dE3), throw its DC onto the bridge when a close topped enemy AFV crosses the bridge as Defensive First Fire in order to place 12 residual on the bridge? We thought that it could, the bridge is not affected as in wasn't a "set" DC, and the AFV wasn't affected as it was not the predesignated target. Did we do this correctly? Thanks, Rich From neil at pegacat.com Sun Apr 4 16:02:16 2004 From: neil at pegacat.com (Neil Andrews) Date: Mon Apr 5 07:43:22 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ANZACcon Tournament 2004 Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040405075655.00abcec0@popa.melbpc.org.au> G'day to all ASL players world wide This is an open invitation to you all to make your way to one of Australia's biggest and best ASL tournaments ANZACcon 2004. In Australia's Southern mainland capital - Melbourne. You can find all the details you are going to need below >ANZACON 2004 >ASL TOURNAMENT >SATURDAY - SUNDAY >- APRIL 24 & 25 - >(gaming also available Friday night, 23 April) > >Details: >The annual Melbourne ASL tournament, ANZACON is to be played over two days >in late April. Two games are to be played each day. The times are: > Saturday 9am-6pm > Sunday 9am-5pm >Cost is $20 > >Other activities: >Friday night - > The venue is to be available on the Friday night for any > form of gaming. The times are 7.30pm until late. >Saturday night - > The tournament dinner is an optional, but highly > recommended activity. It will kick off at 8pm at a restaurant near the venue. > >Venue: >Ashburton library, High St, Ashburton > >Contact: >Please contact the following people and discuss which days you can attend. >Andrew Rogers - (03) 8661-5789 >Neil Andrews - (03) 9801-1412 Stay Safe Yours in ASL =============================== Neil Andrews Secretary - Army Group South ASL Group Boronia, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia neil@pegacat.com http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/asl-victoria/ =============================== From domorich at sprintmail.com Sun Apr 4 20:59:10 2004 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (rich domovic) Date: Mon Apr 5 07:43:26 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: CC Infiltration: Perry hath spoken... References: Message-ID: Beseler writes: > > >Thus, my three closely related questions: (1) If, in a non-ambush > >situation, the ATTACKER rolls an original 2, if he chooses to withdraw > all > >units, must he do so immediately, thus leaving the enemy unscathed? > (2) If > >he elects to stay, in order to effect the usually lethal result, must > he > >suffer an attack from the eliminated DEFENDER, as per normally > simultaneous > >CC? (3) If the ATTACKER chose to \'resolve\' the original 2 as a CC > attack, > >has he lost the option of withdrawing (save a \'12\' rolled by the > >DEFENDER)? > > > > 1) No. > 2) Not if he Withdraws first. > 3) No. > > ....Perry > MMP > > > Two last comments: as Probst pointed out, an important way in which > infiltration differs from an ambush attack is the 'NECESSITY' of > withdrawal, for, if you don't, you get attacked! > > Last but not least, as I believe Bakkan asked, in A18.12, the line > 'Unless one or both sides Withdraw due to Infiltration'. How can > both sides withdraw due to infiltration? Just couldn't come up > with the die rolls that would make it possible. Sure you can somehow > though... > > Yours, > Beseler Top of the last turn, two Italian 136 half squads take turns double timing to reach adjoining hexes next to an American 666 squad in a two hex 1-story (by SSR) building. The second building hex had just been the scene of a terrible melee with only a DC left in the hex. The American needs to maintain control over the building or suffer immediate loss. The 666 fires at one of the moving Ities at 12 flat (-1 non-assault, +1 woods), K/3 eliminates 136. The other CX 136 survives a 6 flat shot and out of desperation advances into melee with the 666. It rolls snakes at 1-6 CC which creates a 7-0 leader (+1 Italian, +1 morale <= 6, -1 due to odds < 1-1) but didn't affect the 666 due to the CC's +1 for the 136's CX status. So, the Italians could refigure the odds at 1-4, casualty reduce the 666 to a 346 withdraw the 136 to the other building hex, leave the 7-0 behind in melee to face a 3-1 CC attack. The 136 then plans to pickup the DC and throw it on the 346 in final fire next turn, possibly helped if the 346's 3-1 CC attack doesn't kill the 7-0 (8 wounds him). But alas, the point of the story, if the Ami 346 rolls his own snakes and generates an 8-1 leader, whether the 8-1 or 346 or both choose to withdraw or not. A18.12 "Unless one or both sides Withdraw due to Infiltration (11.22), both attacks are re-figured using both of the originally-rolled Original DRs and the new leader's FP/Leadership just as if he had been there all along." Clearly, one or both sides have withdrawn and the original attacks cannot be refigured using the original DRs as the 136 has withdrawn and likewise the Ami 8-1 or 346 may also have withdrawn. Rich From ethan.strauss at promega.com Mon Apr 5 06:47:12 2004 From: ethan.strauss at promega.com (Ethan Strauss) Date: Mon Apr 5 07:43:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Roommate for ASL Open? Message-ID: <84A048E51A0101448AF43BF3DDAB716804390D13@madmsg001.promega.com> Hi Everyone, I am going to be going to the ASL Open in Chicago April 23-25 and have reserved a room for the nights of the 23rd and 24th. In the interest of saving a few bucks, anyone want to room with me? The cost is $69/night + tax, so it would be about $70 each for both nights. Please reply to me directly as I don't read the ASLML often. Thanks! Ethan Ethan Strauss Madison Wisconsin ethan.strauss@promega.com From eaton.family at btinternet.com Mon Apr 5 10:41:36 2004 From: eaton.family at btinternet.com (Bill Eaton) Date: Mon Apr 5 10:42:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ Message-ID: Looking to play this soon as the Russians. I seem to remember that it is considered pro-Russian. Is this true? If so, is the balance enough to even it out? (The balance being to slightly slow down the number of reinforcements arriving per turn) Thanks in advance Bill From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Mon Apr 5 11:04:04 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Mon Apr 5 11:05:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ References: Message-ID: <000401c41b38$6ee02b80$3611c80a@posh3> I have played it once and won as the Russians. I played a newbie though, so I cannot say if it is unbalanced. But I can imagine it being pretty tough to play against an experienced Russian player. I would think the balance provided should be enough to even it out. Kenneth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Eaton" To: Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:41 PM Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ | Looking to play this soon as the Russians. I seem to remember that it is | considered pro-Russian. Is this true? If so, is the balance enough to even it | out? (The balance being to slightly slow down the number of reinforcements | arriving per turn) | Thanks in advance | Bill | | From sidirezegh at charter.net Mon Apr 5 11:20:34 2004 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Mon Apr 5 11:25:17 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ Message-ID: <200404051820.i35IKYUa074147@mxsf19.cluster1.charter.net> Well, ROAR has it 70 Russian wins to 59 German, so if you put stock in ROAR figures it certainly *seems* pretty even-depending on many of those playing may have used any balance provosions. -Chas > > From: Bill Eaton > Date: 2004/04/05 Mon PM 05:41:36 GMT > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ > > Looking to play this soon as the Russians. I seem to remember that it is > considered pro-Russian. Is this true? If so, is the balance enough to even it > out? (The balance being to slightly slow down the number of reinforcements > arriving per turn) > Thanks in advance > Bill > > > From perrycocke at comcast.net Mon Apr 5 11:44:09 2004 From: perrycocke at comcast.net (perrycocke@comcast.net) Date: Mon Apr 5 11:45:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ Message-ID: <040520041844.8504.4071A8F8000E3BC5000021382200763704FF9A949C909C868D8D9A@comcast.net> The "expert" Chaney'N'Mcgrath advice is to use both balances at the same time. ....Perry > Looking to play this soon as the Russians. I seem to remember that it is > considered pro-Russian. Is this true? If so, is the balance enough to even it > out? (The balance being to slightly slow down the number of reinforcements > arriving per turn) > Thanks in advance > Bill > > From pyoung at cwhealth.net Mon Apr 5 14:36:18 2004 From: pyoung at cwhealth.net (Peter Young) Date: Mon Apr 5 14:19:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: CC Infiltration: Perry hath spoken... References: Message-ID: <003701c41b56$07f74700$1543030a@Young> > Top of the last turn, two Italian 136 half squads take turns double timing to > reach adjoining hexes next to an American 666 squad in a two hex 1-story (by > SSR) building. The second building hex had just been the scene of a terrible > melee with only a DC left in the hex. The American needs to maintain control > over the building or suffer immediate loss. The 666 fires at one of the moving > Ities at 12 flat (-1 non-assault, +1 woods), K/3 eliminates 136. > The other CX 136 survives a 6 flat shot and out of desperation advances into > melee with the 666. It rolls snakes at 1-6 CC which creates a 7-0 leader (+1 > Italian, +1 morale <= 6, -1 due to odds < 1-1) but didn't affect the 666 due to > the CC's +1 for the 136's CX status. > So, the Italians could refigure the odds at 1-4, casualty reduce the 666 to a > 346 withdraw the 136 to the other building hex, leave the 7-0 behind in melee > to face a 3-1 CC attack. The 136 then plans to pickup the DC and throw it on > the 346 in final fire next turn, possibly helped if the 346's 3-1 CC attack > doesn't kill the 7-0 (8 wounds him). > > But alas, the point of the story, if the Ami 346 rolls his own snakes and > generates an 8-1 leader, whether the 8-1 or 346 or both choose to withdraw or > not. > > A18.12 "Unless one or both sides Withdraw due to Infiltration (11.22), both > attacks are re-figured using both of the originally-rolled Original DRs and the > new leader's FP/Leadership just as if he had been there all along." > > Clearly, one or both sides have withdrawn and the original attacks cannot be > refigured using the original DRs as the 136 has withdrawn and likewise the Ami > 8-1 or 346 may also have withdrawn. > Rich I think you have it slightly wrong and I'll try to summarize the rules as I understand them in answering. The key is that even with Infiltration (rolling an original 2), CC is NOT considered sequential. As A11.22 states, simultaneous CC is "momentarily suspended", thus allowing the ATTACKER the opportunity to withdraw following its attack but before being attacked in return, but this is not the same as saying the attack is "sequential". Thus if the ATTACKER doesn't withdraw all of his units, any that stay behind are still subject to the defender's ORIGINAL attack. In your example, it's not that the Italians "could" refigure the odds, they "do" refigure the odds because their attack still proceeds regardless of whether they subsequently withdraw. Thus with the newly created 7-0, the odds are refigured at 1:4 thereby casualty reducing the American squad as you said. They then have the choice of withdrawing both the 1-3-6 squad and the 7-0 (and avoiding the Ami return attack), withdrawing only one of them, or leaving both behind. However, any units which stay behind would be subject to the full 6 FP of the American unit in CC, since because the CC is sequential, the casualty reduction of the 6-6-6 does not take effect until after the Ami attack is resolved. Thus if the 7-0 stays behind alone, he is subject to a 6:1 attack in return. After resolution of the attack, the 6-6-6 would be casualty reduced, and the remaining half squad would then remain in melee if the 7-0 somehow survived that attack. I feel pretty comfortable with things up to there. The American unit (as a 6-6-6, NOT a 3-4-6) rolling snakes complicates things a bit. The American attack probably should be refigured with the new leader, making the odds 7:1 which of course changes nothing in this case (still resolved at 6:1). The question is whether the Italian attack should be refigured. In this case, adding the American leader (in addition to the Italian leader) makes the Italian attack 2:7 instead of 2:6. The odds wouldn't change (still 1:4), but the result might, as the Casualty Reduction result could apply to the new 8-1 leader instead of the squad depending on Random Selection. However, the "unless" clause in A18.12 implies that BOTH attacks are NOT in fact refigured, since the Italian has (partially) withdrawn due to Infiltration. I'd play it that the original Italian attack is not affected by the American leader, the Ami squad is reduced, and the Americans attack back at 7:1 prior to that squad being reduced (thus the American attack is the only one affected by the newly created American leader). But I readily admit that others may interpret it differently. Peter Young Yakima, WA http://firstfire.blogspot.com From asl_scottj at hotmail.com Mon Apr 5 16:28:02 2004 From: asl_scottj at hotmail.com (Scott Jackson) Date: Mon Apr 5 16:29:17 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual Message-ID: >Can DC toting squad in a building next to a bridge (DASL hex dF2, bridge >dE3), >throw its DC onto the bridge when a close topped enemy AFV crosses the >bridge >as Defensive First Fire in order to place 12 residual on the bridge? >We thought that it could, the bridge is not affected as in wasn't a "set" >DC, >and the AFV wasn't affected as it was not the predesignated target. Did we >do >this correctly? Yes, that is legal. You can make a DFF attack that cannot affect the target--so throwing the DC is legal. Scott Jackson aka Stonewall _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From janusz.maxe at unf.se Mon Apr 5 17:31:45 2004 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Mon Apr 5 17:35:13 2004 Subject: SV: [ASLML] DC residual Message-ID: <5A75A637377A4249B83ACA0BC0510B5D33B589@sesob03.sobernet.net> BUT wouldn't the resid be lowered because of the +2 thrown DC DRM, thus amking it a 6 FP resid? Janusz > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Fr?n: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]F?r Scott Jackson > Skickat: den 6 april 2004 01:28 > Till: domorich@sprintmail.com; Aslml@asl-forums.net > ?mne: RE: [ASLML] DC residual > > > >Can DC toting squad in a building next to a bridge (DASL hex > dF2, bridge > >dE3), > >throw its DC onto the bridge when a close topped enemy AFV > crosses the > >bridge > >as Defensive First Fire in order to place 12 residual on the bridge? > >We thought that it could, the bridge is not affected as in > wasn't a "set" > >DC, > >and the AFV wasn't affected as it was not the predesignated > target. Did we > >do > >this correctly? > > > Yes, that is legal. You can make a DFF attack that cannot affect the > target--so throwing the DC is legal. > > Scott Jackson > aka Stonewall > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web > page - FREE > download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > > From sgtono at yahoo.com Mon Apr 5 21:06:26 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Mon Apr 5 21:07:39 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: G-T Campaign Message-ID: <20040406040626.8355.qmail@web20723.mail.yahoo.com> Yea, it's nasssty I started it with Bruce once, me as the IJA. I made the FATAL mistake of not having 100% of my forces hip. Bruce brought on his planes, which stripped some concealment. that allowed the 150mm NOBA to start firing on the island, which revealed and/or killed a bunch more stuff. The landing craft entered on turn 5, by which time the island was mostly craters, and I had nothing that could effectively fire on the boats. Once on shore, of course, the 8ML really helped him - he lost very few troops. By the end of the scenario (turn 10) he had all but about 3 hexes of the northern island, and 95% of my troops there were dead. Since I'd placed most of my OB on that island, I conceded the campaign. But I'd give it another shot. I think we also blew some of the LC rules with regards to unloading on a non-beach hex. Maybe The List has comments? Tycho Keith Todd wrote: OK Pro, Boy, are you on to GT. Very Bloody, Americans must kill all Japs to win but lose less. WHew!! Keith __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From janusz.maxe at unf.se Tue Apr 6 02:46:01 2004 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Tue Apr 6 02:49:39 2004 Subject: SV: [ASLML] Re: G-T Campaign Message-ID: <5A75A637377A4249B83ACA0BC0510B5D7A0E9E@sesob03.sobernet.net> Don't the Japs have caves to hide in? Caves are safe from NOBA, right? Janusz > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Fr?n: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]F?r Keith Todd > Skickat: den 6 april 2004 06:06 > Till: Aslml@asl-forums.net > Kopia: Tycho Granville > ?mne: [ASLML] Re: G-T Campaign > > > Yea, it's nasssty > > I started it with Bruce once, me as the IJA. I made > the FATAL mistake of not having 100% of my forces hip. > Bruce brought on his planes, which stripped some > concealment. that allowed the 150mm NOBA to start > firing on the island, which revealed and/or killed a > bunch more stuff. The landing craft entered on turn 5, > by which time the island was mostly craters, and I had > nothing that could effectively fire on the boats. Once > on shore, of course, the 8ML really helped him - he > lost very few troops. By the end of the scenario (turn > 10) he had all but about 3 hexes of the northern > island, and 95% of my troops there were dead. Since > I'd placed most of my OB on that island, I conceded > the campaign. But I'd give it another shot. I think we > also blew some of the LC rules with regards to > unloading on a non-beach hex. > > Maybe The List has comments? > > Tycho > > > Keith Todd wrote: > > OK Pro, > > Boy, are you on to GT. Very Bloody, Americans must > kill all Japs to win but lose less. WHew!! > > Keith > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Tue Apr 6 05:51:17 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Tue Apr 6 04:52:34 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: G-T Campaign In-Reply-To: <5A75A637377A4249B83ACA0BC0510B5D7A0E9E@sesob03.sobernet.net> Message-ID: <000001c41bd5$db127360$6401a8c0@NewDell> >Don't the Japs have caves to hide in? Caves are safe >from NOBA, right? They are about as safe as you can get. OBA has no affect on a cave unless the LOF originates from the cave's CA. Nothing can affect a unit in a cave complex. Of course, if you are in such an immune location, you are probably not firing at the enemy. Still, the Japanese do get some x+5+7 pillboxes I think. From oleboe at tiscali.no Tue Apr 6 04:56:33 2004 From: oleboe at tiscali.no (oleboe@tiscali.no) Date: Tue Apr 6 04:57:50 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... Message-ID: <407273C700000009@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> ...and I really enjoyed it. Hi everyone. I've hardly been playing ASL for the last 3-4 years. Ola Nygaards, which is both a good friend and a devoted ASL player has once in a while dragged me into a game, and is the reason that I have played at all. Real life (including two daughters, the last only 6 weeks old) have been much more important. I have been missing the ASL community, but not felt the urge to play. But Ola has started an ASL tournament here in Oslo, and getting the chance to meet old ASL buddies made me take all my ASL stuff down from the attick and play - and for the first time in four years or so, one game just made me want to play more. So now I have played 3 games in a week, more than I did last year. Due to my renewed interest, I've decided to upgrade the IIFT(M)QRDC. I don't know if it's used much, so please tell me if you're interested in a new version, and if so, whether you want it in A4 or letter format, and in B/W or colour. For those who don't know the IIFT(M)QRDC, take a look at http://zcrater.mystarband.net/iift.html Anyway, its good to take a look at the ASLML again (I've not been subscribed for the last 4 years) and see that little has changed :-) Bye ----------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say? Me and my body or me and my head? Ole B?e oleboe@tiscali.no From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Mon Apr 5 22:55:14 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Tue Apr 6 10:41:12 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Scenario Credits & Permission to put on the WWW Message-ID: <001501c41b9b$bba54d70$647ba8c0@samb03> I have PDF files with the following scenarios and play aids. These were at one time posted on tigertank.com/crossroads... If you know these authors, I'd like to make an effort to confirm that its OK to post these items on the web. (I assume it probably is, because they were on tigertank.com - but I'd like to try to confirm.) So, if you know any of these folks, please have them get in touch with me. Thanks. Sam The list of authors..... Jeff T Allen: JA1 - One Puka Puka JA4 - A Triangle of Buggers Jeff D Shields JDS1 - Schwerpunkt! JS2 - Nimm Das Jetzt! Bryan Milligan BM1 (?) - A Helping Hand Brent Pollock BP5 - Charnel-Wood BP2 - Melfa Bridgehead BP3 - Deja-Vu Mustafa Unlu (conversions) COI17 - Debacle At Korosten COI18 - Defense of Luga COI16 - Sowchos 79 Jean Luc Bechennec TAC29 - Kakazu Ridge (English conversion) ASL TT1 - Take The Chance (IDRAC 1992 Tournament Scenario) ASL TT3 - Panzers Marsch! (IDRAC 1992 Tournament Scenario) Rich Spilky - The ASL Rules Tables Ole Boe - IIFT QRDCs From domorich at sprintmail.com Mon Apr 5 23:29:05 2004 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (rich domovic) Date: Tue Apr 6 10:41:14 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: SV: DC residual References: <5A75A637377A4249B83ACA0BC0510B5D33B589@sesob03.sobernet.net> Message-ID: Janusz Maxe writes: > > BUT > > wouldn't the resid be lowered because of the +2 thrown DC DRM, thus amking it a 6 FP resid? > It actually is probably, 4 residual, as the bridge hexside reduces the six to a four. A8.26. Rich From helgin at hotmail.com Tue Apr 6 10:09:58 2004 From: helgin at hotmail.com (Kimmo K) Date: Tue Apr 6 10:41:15 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Bypass problemo Message-ID: Hi all... during a scenario happens the following: between two hexes both containing singlehex house in the gap there is a tank in stationary bypass on the other hex. let's say hex A. now another vehicle wishes to bypass that same gap using the other houses hex, hex B. is it legal? looking to RB D2.31 says not... or does it say so? thanks for help folks Kimmo _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From john.barkoviak at verizon.net Tue Apr 6 06:54:26 2004 From: john.barkoviak at verizon.net (John Barkoviak) Date: Tue Apr 6 10:42:02 2004 Subject: [ASLML] test again Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040406085359.00abea38@incoming.verizon.net> test John"Bark" "Dare To Fail!" ~ Norman Vaughn From john.barkoviak at verizon.net Mon Apr 5 12:45:38 2004 From: john.barkoviak at verizon.net (John Barkoviak) Date: Tue Apr 6 10:42:08 2004 Subject: [ASLML] VASL.... Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040405144521.00b23550@incoming.verizon.net> test for the ASLML John"Bark" "Dare To Fail!" ~ Norman Vaughn From dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk Tue Apr 6 10:49:09 2004 From: dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk (David Schofield) Date: Tue Apr 6 10:53:38 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Bypass problemo Message-ID: <4C40C6148BACD711AEF800805F8B335E01138369@exchange1.bournemouth.ac.uk> The bypass gap is between the house and it's hexside, not the house and the other house. so it looks fine to me. -----Original Message----- From: Kimmo K To: Aslml@asl-forums.net Sent: 06/04/2004 18:09 Subject: [ASLML] Bypass problemo Hi all... during a scenario happens the following: between two hexes both containing singlehex house in the gap there is a tank in stationary bypass on the other hex. let's say hex A. now another vehicle wishes to bypass that same gap using the other houses hex, hex B. is it legal? looking to RB D2.31 says not... or does it say so? thanks for help folks Kimmo _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk Tue Apr 6 10:52:53 2004 From: dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk (David Schofield) Date: Tue Apr 6 10:57:28 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: SV: DC residual Message-ID: <4C40C6148BACD711AEF800805F8B335E0113836B@exchange1.bournemouth.ac.uk> bridge hexside? -----Original Message----- From: rich domovic To: Aslml@asl-forums.net Sent: 06/04/2004 07:29 Subject: [ASLML] Re: SV: DC residual Janusz Maxe writes: > > BUT > > wouldn't the resid be lowered because of the +2 thrown DC DRM, thus amking it a 6 FP resid? > It actually is probably, 4 residual, as the bridge hexside reduces the six to a four. A8.26. Rich From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Apr 6 11:01:21 2004 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Apr 6 11:07:03 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... Message-ID: <200404061801.i36I1LkL060517@mxsf22.cluster1.charter.net> > > From: oleboe@tiscali.no > Date: 2004/04/06 Tue AM 06:56:33 CDT > To: "ASL" > Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... > > ----------------------- > If you cut off my head, what do I say? > Me and my body or me and my head? I say..."Oooooouch...d*mn, that hurt!!!) All hail the return of the "MIGHTY PROPHET OF THE IIFT"! Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From daveolie at eastlink.ca Tue Apr 6 11:15:57 2004 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Tue Apr 6 11:42:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... References: <407273C700000009@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> Message-ID: <003601c41c06$0d7d1820$a64d8918@klis.com> Glad to welcome you back, Ole. You wrote: > Due to my renewed interest, I've decided to upgrade the IIFT(M)QRDC. I don't > know if it's used much, so please tell me if you're interested in a new version, Yes, yes, yes, yes! I used to use it all the time, but somehow my laminated copy has gone MIA. I was planning to download a new copy, but an upgrade would be even better. > and if so, whether you want it in A4 or letter format, and in B/W or colour. Letter would be better for me, and colour would be a definite bonus. Excellent. David "the only thing in ASL that I've lost, besides games" Olie From stubinpsu at hotmail.com Tue Apr 6 12:04:06 2004 From: stubinpsu at hotmail.com (Stuart Rubin) Date: Tue Apr 6 12:05:24 2004 Subject: [ASLML] CoI and CoD Scenario updates Message-ID: Besides the scenarios from CoI and CoD that have been updated in ASL Classic, The Annual and The General are there any scenarios that have been updated under the "amateur" banner? I'm wondering if Rehearsal for Crete (Scenario 32 from CoD) has ever been updated. Later, Stu From sgtono at yahoo.com Tue Apr 6 12:08:16 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Tue Apr 6 12:09:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... In-Reply-To: <407273C700000009@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> Message-ID: <20040406190816.79190.qmail@web20729.mail.yahoo.com> I have used your IIFT exclusively since finding it. I would prefer letter, the only problem I had with your original was that I could only print it on a laser color. The right margin is too tight for inkjets. Great Job, Keith --- oleboe@tiscali.no wrote: > ...and I really enjoyed it. > > Hi everyone. > I've hardly been playing ASL for the last 3-4 years. > Ola Nygaards, which > is both a good friend and a devoted ASL player has > once in a while dragged > me into a game, and is the reason that I have played > at all. Real life (including > two daughters, the last only 6 weeks old) have been > much more important. > I have been missing the ASL community, but not felt > the urge to play. > > But Ola has started an ASL tournament here in Oslo, > and getting the chance > to meet old ASL buddies made me take all my ASL > stuff down from the attick > and play - and for the first time in four years or > so, one game just made > me want to play more. So now I have played 3 games > in a week, more than I > did last year. > > Due to my renewed interest, I've decided to upgrade > the IIFT(M)QRDC. I don't > know if it's used much, so please tell me if you're > interested in a new version, > and if so, whether you want it in A4 or letter > format, and in B/W or colour. > For those who don't know the IIFT(M)QRDC, take a > look at http://zcrater.mystarband.net/iift.html > > Anyway, its good to take a look at the ASLML again > (I've not been subscribed > for the last 4 years) and see that little has > changed :-) > > Bye > ----------------------- > If you cut off my head, what do I say? > Me and my body or me and my head? > > Ole B?e > oleboe@tiscali.no > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From airius at yahoo.com Tue Apr 6 12:27:33 2004 From: airius at yahoo.com (Airius) Date: Tue Apr 6 12:28:59 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... In-Reply-To: <003601c41c06$0d7d1820$a64d8918@klis.com> Message-ID: <20040406192733.42778.qmail@web41008.mail.yahoo.com> I would prefer color and A4, fit more crap on one card, I tell ya! -Wes Wagner --- David Olie wrote: > Glad to welcome you back, Ole. > > You wrote: > > Due to my renewed interest, I've decided to > upgrade the IIFT(M)QRDC. I > don't > > know if it's used much, so please tell me if > you're interested in a new > version, > Yes, yes, yes, yes! I used to use it all the time, > but somehow my laminated > copy has gone MIA. I was planning to download a new > copy, but an upgrade > would be even better. > > > and if so, whether you want it in A4 or letter > format, and in B/W or > colour. > Letter would be better for me, and colour would be a > definite bonus. > Excellent. > > David "the only thing in ASL that I've lost, besides > games" Olie > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk Tue Apr 6 10:54:28 2004 From: dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk (David Schofield) Date: Tue Apr 6 14:51:15 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Scenario Credits & Permission to put on the WWW Message-ID: <4C40C6148BACD711AEF800805F8B335E0113836C@exchange1.bournemouth.ac.uk> Ole Boe has just posted to the list for the first time in 4 years and he says he is upgrading the qrdc so wait for that. cheers david -----Original Message----- From: Sam Belcher To: 'asl mailing list' Sent: 06/04/2004 06:55 Subject: [ASLML] Scenario Credits & Permission to put on the WWW I have PDF files with the following scenarios and play aids. These were at one time posted on tigertank.com/crossroads... If you know these authors, I'd like to make an effort to confirm that its OK to post these items on the web. (I assume it probably is, because they were on tigertank.com - but I'd like to try to confirm.) So, if you know any of these folks, please have them get in touch with me. Thanks. Sam The list of authors..... Jeff T Allen: JA1 - One Puka Puka JA4 - A Triangle of Buggers Jeff D Shields JDS1 - Schwerpunkt! JS2 - Nimm Das Jetzt! Bryan Milligan BM1 (?) - A Helping Hand Brent Pollock BP5 - Charnel-Wood BP2 - Melfa Bridgehead BP3 - Deja-Vu Mustafa Unlu (conversions) COI17 - Debacle At Korosten COI18 - Defense of Luga COI16 - Sowchos 79 Jean Luc Bechennec TAC29 - Kakazu Ridge (English conversion) ASL TT1 - Take The Chance (IDRAC 1992 Tournament Scenario) ASL TT3 - Panzers Marsch! (IDRAC 1992 Tournament Scenario) Rich Spilky - The ASL Rules Tables Ole Boe - IIFT QRDCs From asl at howardhowardfine.com Tue Apr 6 13:57:43 2004 From: asl at howardhowardfine.com (ASL) Date: Tue Apr 6 14:51:16 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Scenario Credits & Permission to put on the WWW Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040406165736.01a389a8@mail.howardhowardfine.com> Sam I made the PDFs of Melfa Bridgehead and Deja Vu (proper scenario card layouts) and Brent thought it was cool, so I imagine he wouldn't mind if they were re-posted. BTW, the "newest" version of Melfa is on my web site. Craig Cooper http://howardhowardfine.com/asl/index.html At 10:55 PM 05/04/2004 -0700, you wrote: >I have PDF files with the following scenarios and play aids. These were at >one time posted on tigertank.com/crossroads... > > >Brent Pollock > BP5 - Charnel-Wood > BP2 - Melfa Bridgehead > BP3 - Deja-Vu craig http://howardhowardfine.com/asl/index.html From s.deller at charter.net Tue Apr 6 16:18:13 2004 From: s.deller at charter.net (Sean Deller) Date: Tue Apr 6 16:25:38 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Perry Sez: LLMC applies Message-ID: <002601c41c2d$6f67dbc0$2083b018@DHT8S631> Gentlemen, Here's the Perry Sez to the No Quarter LLMC question I posted earlier. Sean Deller ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Sean Deller" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:07 PM Subject: Re: LLMC or not? > Situation: A Russian 4-5-8 squad and a broken 9-1 leader occupy a foxhole > in Open Ground adjacent to a building with lots of Hungarians. No Quarter > is not in effect. Due to various surrounding Hungarians (some near, some > far) the leader does not have a valid rout path in any direction and, > therefore, must surrender. The Hungarians invoke No Quarter to eliminate > the leader. > > Question: Will this require a LLMC? > > <> > > ....Perry > MMP > > Sorry for the delay. > > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Apr 6 17:21:59 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Apr 6 17:23:26 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 16:28:02 -0700, "Scott Jackson" wrote: >>Can DC toting squad in a building next to a bridge (DASL hex dF2, bridge >>dE3), >>throw its DC onto the bridge when a close topped enemy AFV crosses the >>bridge >>as Defensive First Fire in order to place 12 residual on the bridge? >>We thought that it could, the bridge is not affected as in wasn't a "set" >>DC, >>and the AFV wasn't affected as it was not the predesignated target. Did we >>do >>this correctly? > >Yes, that is legal. You can make a DFF attack that cannot affect the >target--so throwing the DC is legal. Why is that legal? The bridge is not the target, and the AFV is not the target, so what is the DC being thrown at? There's a difference between shooting at a target you know you can't hurt (in order to leave residual) and deliberately not targeting a target merely to leave residual! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ziggy had Garfield neutered? Now that's funny!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Apr 6 17:24:01 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Apr 6 17:25:26 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:15:36 +0000 (UTC), rich domovic wrote: >Can DC toting squad in a building next to a bridge (DASL hex dF2, bridge dE3), >throw its DC onto the bridge when a close topped enemy AFV crosses the bridge >as Defensive First Fire in order to place 12 residual on the bridge? >We thought that it could, the bridge is not affected as in wasn't a "set" DC, >and the AFV wasn't affected as it was not the predesignated target. Did we do >this correctly? No. If the bridge is not the target, and if you're deliberately *not* targeting the AFV, what exactly *are* you targeting? You can't attack an empty hex just for the hell of it in DFF. If you're attempting to target the AFV (which is legal), you won't leave any residual (since only the designated target can be affected). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ziggy had Garfield neutered? Now that's funny!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Apr 6 17:29:49 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Apr 6 17:31:14 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... In-Reply-To: <407273C700000009@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> References: <407273C700000009@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> Message-ID: <4pi67092l9rfoa2tf52ia9f88mkn2r5mil@4ax.com> Hey, Ole. You didn't think you were free of the addiction, did you? Don't listen to those silly Americans . A4 is the way to go. Colour is certainly nice, too. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ziggy had Garfield neutered? Now that's funny!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Apr 6 17:33:38 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Apr 6 17:35:04 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Bypass problemo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:09:58 +0000, "Kimmo K" wrote: >between two hexes both containing singlehex house in the gap there is a tank >in stationary bypass on the other hex. let's say hex A. now another vehicle >wishes to bypass that same gap using the other houses hex, hex B. > >is it legal? looking to RB D2.31 says not... or does it say so? It's not legal, per D2.31. "VBM is not allowed along a hexside already containing another Bypass vehicle/wreck along that hexside." Note that the rule says *hexside*, not hex. Although the bypassing vehicle is in a particular hex, it's also along that shared hexside. The second vehicle can't also share the hexside, even if you put it in the other hex. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ziggy had Garfield neutered? Now that's funny!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From psryan63 at netzero.com Tue Apr 6 17:52:57 2004 From: psryan63 at netzero.com (Patrick Ryan) Date: Tue Apr 6 17:55:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] CoI and CoD Scenario updates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c41c3a$ac10ce80$15129b04@ussyorktown> Don't know if John Appel is still a member of the list, but I know he had a version of Rehearsal for Crete. Don't know how far or if in fact it was ever play-tested by MMP. Or where it stands in the pipeline. Jim Stahler may have had a version as well. -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Stuart Rubin Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 3:04 PM To: ASL Mailing List Subject: [ASLML] CoI and CoD Scenario updates Besides the scenarios from CoI and CoD that have been updated in ASL Classic, The Annual and The General are there any scenarios that have been updated under the "amateur" banner? I'm wondering if Rehearsal for Crete (Scenario 32 from CoD) has ever been updated. Later, Stu From Phlegm at Warwick.net Tue Apr 6 19:14:02 2004 From: Phlegm at Warwick.net (Phlegm) Date: Tue Apr 6 19:15:40 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Rehearsal for Crete. References: <000801c41c3a$ac10ce80$15129b04@ussyorktown> Message-ID: <000b01c41c46$025611a0$8101a8c0@warwick.net> I have a version that I have been working on for several years. I'll find it and post it in the next couple of days. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Ryan" To: "'Stuart Rubin'" ; "'ASL Mailing List'" Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: RE: [ASLML] CoI and CoD Scenario updates > Don't know if John Appel is still a member of the list, but I know he > had a version of Rehearsal for Crete. Don't know how far or if in fact > it was ever play-tested by MMP. Or where it stands in the pipeline. > > Jim Stahler may have had a version as well. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] > On Behalf Of Stuart Rubin > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 3:04 PM > To: ASL Mailing List > Subject: [ASLML] CoI and CoD Scenario updates > > > Besides the scenarios from CoI and CoD that have been updated in ASL > Classic, The Annual and The General are there any scenarios that have > been updated under the "amateur" banner? I'm wondering if Rehearsal for > Crete (Scenario 32 from CoD) has ever been updated. > > Later, > Stu > > > From midnightcougar at telus.net Tue Apr 6 19:23:22 2004 From: midnightcougar at telus.net (Sean) Date: Tue Apr 6 19:22:53 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... In-Reply-To: <003601c41c06$0d7d1820$a64d8918@klis.com> References: <407273C700000009@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> <003601c41c06$0d7d1820$a64d8918@klis.com> Message-ID: Welcome back Ole, > > Due to my renewed interest, I've decided to upgrade the IIFT(M)QRDC. I >don't >> know if it's used much, so please tell me if you're interested in a new >version, > > and if so, whether you want it in A4 or letter format, and in B/W or >colour. I use it all the time and I've been toying with adding the other QRDC tables to make it an 11x17 foldout. I say go for the improved version and maybe even add more to it! Sean From sidirezegh at charter.net Tue Apr 6 19:27:42 2004 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Tue Apr 6 19:33:41 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Rehearsal for Crete. In-Reply-To: <000b01c41c46$025611a0$8101a8c0@warwick.net> Message-ID: <001c01c41c47$e80146b0$9bfebe42@argent> Well, be quick about it man!! :-) -Chas "Can't wait to see it, obviously" Argent +++++++++++++++++ Chas Argent sidirezegh@charter.net Medford, Oregon, USA > -----Original Message----- > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On > Behalf Of Phlegm > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 7:14 PM > To: psryan63@netzero.com; 'Stuart Rubin'; 'ASL Mailing List' > Subject: [ASLML] Rehearsal for Crete. > > I have a version that I have been working on for several years. I'll find > it and post it in the next couple of days. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick Ryan" > To: "'Stuart Rubin'" ; "'ASL Mailing List'" > > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:52 PM > Subject: RE: [ASLML] CoI and CoD Scenario updates > > > > Don't know if John Appel is still a member of the list, but I know he > > had a version of Rehearsal for Crete. Don't know how far or if in fact > > it was ever play-tested by MMP. Or where it stands in the pipeline. > > > > Jim Stahler may have had a version as well. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] > > On Behalf Of Stuart Rubin > > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 3:04 PM > > To: ASL Mailing List > > Subject: [ASLML] CoI and CoD Scenario updates > > > > > > Besides the scenarios from CoI and CoD that have been updated in ASL > > Classic, The Annual and The General are there any scenarios that have > > been updated under the "amateur" banner? I'm wondering if Rehearsal for > > Crete (Scenario 32 from CoD) has ever been updated. > > > > Later, > > Stu > > > > > > From bebakken at hotmail.com Tue Apr 6 19:50:03 2004 From: bebakken at hotmail.com (Bruce Bakken) Date: Tue Apr 6 19:51:28 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual Message-ID: > >On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:15:36 +0000 (UTC), rich domovic > wrote: > > >Can DC toting squad in a building next to a bridge (DASL hex dF2, bridge >dE3), > >throw its DC onto the bridge when a close topped enemy AFV crosses the >bridge > >as Defensive First Fire in order to place 12 residual on the bridge? > >We thought that it could, the bridge is not affected as in wasn't a "set" >DC, > >and the AFV wasn't affected as it was not the predesignated target. Did >we do > >this correctly? > During Defensive First Fire, you would only be able to Throw it versus the AFV, since it is the AFV that is expending MP. You may certainly do so, even if the DC has zero chance of destroying the AFV. >No. If the bridge is not the target, and if you're deliberately *not* >targeting the AFV, what exactly *are* you targeting? You can't attack an >empty hex just for the hell of it in DFF. > True. You must target the moving unit during Defensive First Fire. >If you're attempting to target the AFV (which is legal), you won't leave >any >residual (since only the designated target can be affected). > I don't agree. While a Thrown DC that is successfully Placed will only attack Vulnerable PRC with a Specific Collateral Attack, it still leaves Residual FP in the Location for that attack. The same would be true if you fired HE at the AFV and hit it; it would attack Vulnerable PRC, and leave Residual FP in the Location. A8.2: "When a unit is attacked by Defensive First Fire ... the target Location in which the attack is resolved ... is marked with a Residual FP counter ... If the attack includes a To Kill DR vs a vehicle, Residual FP is created in the same manner [EXC: If AP ... et al]." In this case, it seems to me that a Thrown DC (resolved on the 30 FP column) would leave 12 Residual FP in the Bridge Location. The Placement DRM (for Throwing) would not reduce the amount of Residual FP (A8.26), since the DRM apply to Placement and not for To-Hit/IFT. Regards, Bruce Bakken _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Apr 6 20:32:44 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Apr 6 20:34:13 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:50:03 -0400, "Bruce Bakken" wrote: >>If you're attempting to target the AFV (which is legal), you won't leave >>any residual (since only the designated target can be affected). > >I don't agree. While a Thrown DC that is successfully Placed will only >attack Vulnerable PRC with a Specific Collateral Attack, it still leaves >Residual FP in the Location for that attack. D.8 explicitly says otherwise. >The same would be true if you >fired HE at the AFV and hit it; it would attack Vulnerable PRC, and leave >Residual FP in the Location. Again, D.8 explicitly says otherwise. D.8 COLLATERAL ATTACKS: "A Collateral Attack receives no increased benefit due to Multiple Hits, nor does it leave Residual FP (A8.2)." >In this case, it seems to me that a Thrown DC (resolved on the 30 FP column) >would leave 12 Residual FP in the Bridge Location. The Placement DRM (for >Throwing) would not reduce the amount of Residual FP (A8.26), since the DRM >apply to Placement and not for To-Hit/IFT. D.8A SPECIFIC: "When a vehicle is attacked ... as a pre-designated target but not destroyed, etc., any Vulnerable PRC in/on it are subject to a full-strength Specific Collateral Attack as per D.8 above. ... No other unit in the same Location is affected by the FP of a Specific Collateral Attack." The Thrown DC must pre-designate the vehicle as its target (per A23.5); this makes the DC FP vs. PRC a Specific Collateral Attack (per D.8A); this means it leaves no Residual FP (per D.8). (There is also no Collateral Attack if the DC actually destroys the vehicle, per footnote 1 of the Collateral Attack Table, so there is no Residual FP in that case either.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ziggy had Garfield neutered? Now that's funny!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Tue Apr 6 20:34:33 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Tue Apr 6 20:35:58 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... In-Reply-To: <4pi67092l9rfoa2tf52ia9f88mkn2r5mil@4ax.com> Message-ID: <000a01c41c51$3e90c420$647ba8c0@samb03> Bruce "Somewhere in the South Pacific" Probst wrote: > Hey, Ole. You didn't think you were free of the addiction, did you? Ha!! > Don't listen to those silly Americans . A4 is the way to > go. Colour is certainly nice, too. 8.5 inches by 11 inches. And its spelled "color". ;) From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Apr 6 21:20:59 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Apr 6 21:22:23 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... In-Reply-To: <000a01c41c51$3e90c420$647ba8c0@samb03> References: <4pi67092l9rfoa2tf52ia9f88mkn2r5mil@4ax.com> <000a01c41c51$3e90c420$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <1a0770l4bgrk5cvb4s6ih1pj56ter34q77@4ax.com> On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:34:33 -0700, "Sam Belcher" wrote: >8.5 inches by 11 inches. Are you boasting again? "Never mind the quality, feel the width." ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ziggy had Garfield neutered? Now that's funny!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From weflemi at mbj.nifty.com Wed Apr 7 04:21:37 2004 From: weflemi at mbj.nifty.com (Will Fleming) Date: Wed Apr 7 04:23:15 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade Message-ID: <000201c41c92$7e2407f0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Sam/All, Any info on scenarios and such? The link up at MMP is broken BTW. I will be very disappointed if some of the Portland crew doesn't make it up this year. After having been away from ASL for so long, I am looking for some easy 'marks'. :) Will From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Wed Apr 7 05:50:43 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Wed Apr 7 04:52:17 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c41c9e$f0e97a20$6401a8c0@NewDell> >(There is also no Collateral Attack if the DC actually >destroys the vehicle, per footnote 1 of the Collateral Attack >Table, so there is no Residual FP in that case either.) I disagree. Collateral attacks never leave residual, but the attack that created the collateral attack does. In other words, the attack that created the collateral attack is what creates the residual. So, if you hit a tank with a MG TK attack, you (possibly) leave residual regardless of whether the tank was killed or not or whether there was a collateral attack due to the TK attempt. Per A8.2 "If the attack includes a To Kill DR vs a vehicle, Residual FP is created in the same manner. . ." Of course, this question has to do with thrown DC, so the likelihood of a destroyed AFV is slim. I suspect that residual was meant to be placed even if no TK DR was made (due to poor placement DR), but that is not covered by the rules as far as I can tell. From bebakken at hotmail.com Wed Apr 7 05:49:06 2004 From: bebakken at hotmail.com (Bruce Bakken) Date: Wed Apr 7 05:50:41 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual Message-ID: > > > >I don't agree. While a Thrown DC that is successfully Placed will only > >attack Vulnerable PRC with a Specific Collateral Attack, it still leaves > >Residual FP in the Location for that attack. > >D.8 explicitly says otherwise. > > >The same would be true if you > >fired HE at the AFV and hit it; it would attack Vulnerable PRC, and leave > >Residual FP in the Location. > >Again, D.8 explicitly says otherwise. > >D.8 COLLATERAL ATTACKS: "A Collateral Attack receives no increased benefit >due >to Multiple Hits, nor does it leave Residual FP (A8.2)." > The Collateral Attack does not leave Residual FP, but the original attack versus the AFV does. A Collateral Attack "is resolved as a separate attack vs the vehicle's Vulnerable PRC immediately subsequent to the resolution of the attack vs the vehicle..." While this "separate attack" (Collateral Attack) does not leave Residual FP, the original "attack vs the vehicle" does leave Residual FP, per A8.2. > >In this case, it seems to me that a Thrown DC (resolved on the 30 FP >column) > >would leave 12 Residual FP in the Bridge Location. The Placement DRM >(for > >Throwing) would not reduce the amount of Residual FP (A8.26), since the >DRM > >apply to Placement and not for To-Hit/IFT. > >D.8A SPECIFIC: "When a vehicle is attacked ... as a pre-designated target >but >not destroyed, etc., any Vulnerable PRC in/on it are subject to a >full-strength Specific Collateral Attack as per D.8 above. ... No other >unit >in the same Location is affected by the FP of a Specific Collateral >Attack." > >The Thrown DC must pre-designate the vehicle as its target (per A23.5); >this >makes the DC FP vs. PRC a Specific Collateral Attack (per D.8A); this means >it >leaves no Residual FP (per D.8). > When a vehicle is pre-designated as the attack, we know that no other unit is affected by that attack. Likewise, no other unit than the PRC are affected by a Specific Collateral Attack. This has no bearing on the Residual FP left by the original pre-designated attack. >(There is also no Collateral Attack if the DC actually destroys the >vehicle, >per footnote 1 of the Collateral Attack Table, so there is no Residual FP >in >that case either.) > The Residual FP (if any) is left by the original attack, whether pre-designated or not. Whether the original attack creates a Collateral Attack is an independent issue. See the D.8 EX on page D2 [2nd Ed] for an example of ordnance TH striking the vehicle, making a TK DR, and leaving (ROF dependent) Residual FP. It also seems that perhaps the Thrower's Location might receive Residual FP, since "both the target's and thrower's Locations are immediately attacked by the DC". However, A8.2 says "the target Location in which the attack is resolved", so evidently only the AFV's Location receives the Residual FP. Regards, Bruce Bakken _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Wed Apr 7 07:47:26 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Wed Apr 7 07:49:01 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade In-Reply-To: <000201c41c92$7e2407f0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Message-ID: <000401c41caf$3f12aea0$647ba8c0@samb03> > Sam/All, > > Any info on scenarios and such? The link up at MMP is broken BTW. Probably broken because I typed "http:// in front of the website name. I've since re-entered it correctly, but it hasn't changed. At least one round will feature "Hall of Fame" scenarios. These are listed in Journal 4, I believe and are all excellent scenarios. > I will be very disappointed if some of the Portland crew > doesn't make it up this year. After having been away from > ASL for so long, I am looking for some easy 'marks'. :) The "Portland Patsy's" should show up in some numbers again this year. They just love getting beaten over, and over, and over again.... ;) Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Wed Apr 7 07:48:07 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Wed Apr 7 07:49:38 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade In-Reply-To: <000201c41c92$7e2407f0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Message-ID: <000501c41caf$572b8160$647ba8c0@samb03> > Any info on scenarios and such? The link up at MMP is broken BTW. BTW, the correct link is http://dicetower.com/ASL/Enfilade2004.htm From homercles11 at hotmail.com Wed Apr 7 08:02:14 2004 From: homercles11 at hotmail.com (Paul Kenny) Date: Wed Apr 7 08:03:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now Message-ID: Am I the only one who cant open this file? Paul Kenny Owner of Fanatic Enterprises makers of quality ASL scenario packs Including: Fanatic Pack #1 and Fanatic Pack #2, Battlin' Bastards of Bataan plus the recently released Fanatic Pack #3 Check out my website at http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Pete Phillipps" Reply-To: pete@vftt.co.uk To: "ASL Mailing List" Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:12:20 +0100 Hi Everyone, A bit late, but the new VFTT is now available from the VFTT web site at www.vftt.co.uk/vftt54.pdf. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp From sgtono at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 08:06:29 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Wed Apr 7 08:08:03 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040407150629.76377.qmail@web20726.mail.yahoo.com> I informed Pete about the problem and he sent a non webized e-copy. Keith --- Paul Kenny wrote: > Am I the only one who cant open this file? > > Paul Kenny > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > makers of quality ASL scenario packs > > Including: > > Fanatic Pack #1 and Fanatic Pack #2, Battlin' > Bastards of Bataan plus the > recently released Fanatic Pack #3 > > Check out my website at > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Pete Phillipps" > Reply-To: pete@vftt.co.uk > To: "ASL Mailing List" > Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now > Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:12:20 +0100 > > Hi Everyone, > > A bit late, but the new VFTT is now available from > the VFTT web > site at www.vftt.co.uk/vftt54.pdf. > > Pete > > "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by > soldiers nourished > on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 > Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier > ASL Journal) free > from http://www.vftt.co.uk > Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in > Blackpool) at > http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf > Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's > biggest ASL > tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm > Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release > Date: 31/03/2004 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure > your PC is protected and > safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From airius at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 08:15:31 2004 From: airius at yahoo.com (Airius) Date: Wed Apr 7 08:17:05 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade In-Reply-To: <000401c41caf$3f12aea0$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <20040407151531.91784.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> Last time I checked you were 0-2 against me Sam, so I am just going to have to come up there and kick your a$$ again and make it 0-3(and 0-4, and 0-5, and 0-6) just to remind you. What does Sam, the Puget sounders, and Tampa Bay have in common? "They invented losing!" -Wes, the non-commissar BC --- Sam Belcher wrote: > > Sam/All, > > > > Any info on scenarios and such? The link up at > MMP is broken BTW. > > Probably broken because I typed "http:// in front of > the website name. I've > since re-entered it correctly, but it hasn't > changed. > > At least one round will feature "Hall of Fame" > scenarios. These are listed > in Journal 4, I believe and are all excellent > scenarios. > > > I will be very disappointed if some of the > Portland crew > > doesn't make it up this year. After having been > away from > > ASL for so long, I am looking for some easy > 'marks'. :) > > The "Portland Patsy's" should show up in some > numbers again this year. They > just love getting beaten over, and over, and over > again.... ;) > > Sam > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From sidirezegh at charter.net Wed Apr 7 08:12:16 2004 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Wed Apr 7 08:22:32 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: ASL VFTT54 Out Now Message-ID: <200404071512.i37FCHQv013648@mxsf10.cluster1.charter.net> Hmm, opened fine for me... -Chas > > From: "Paul Kenny" > Date: 2004/04/07 Wed PM 03:02:14 GMT > To: pete@vftt.co.uk, Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: RE: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now > > Am I the only one who cant open this file? > > Paul Kenny > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > makers of quality ASL scenario packs > > Including: > > Fanatic Pack #1 and Fanatic Pack #2, Battlin' Bastards of Bataan plus the > recently released Fanatic Pack #3 > > Check out my website at > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Pete Phillipps" > Reply-To: pete@vftt.co.uk > To: "ASL Mailing List" > Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now > Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:12:20 +0100 > > Hi Everyone, > > A bit late, but the new VFTT is now available from the VFTT web > site at www.vftt.co.uk/vftt54.pdf. > > Pete > > "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished > on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 > Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free > from http://www.vftt.co.uk > Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at > http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf > Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL > tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm > Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and > safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp > > > From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Wed Apr 7 08:24:34 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Wed Apr 7 08:26:06 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade In-Reply-To: <20040407151531.91784.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c41cb4$6f0c8900$647ba8c0@samb03> > Last time I checked you were 0-2 against me Sam, so I > am just going to have to come up there and kick your > a$$ again and make it 0-3(and 0-4, and 0-5, and 0-6) > just to remind you. > > What does Sam, the Puget sounders, and Tampa Bay have > in common? "They invented losing!" Big talk from the guy who rolled more 2's than a magician could expect! I win the old fashioned way - with crappy die rolls! Bring it on!!! Sam From KKenneally at anteon.com Wed Apr 7 09:31:42 2004 From: KKenneally at anteon.com (Kenneally, Kevin) Date: Wed Apr 7 09:33:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: ASL VFTT54 Out Now Message-ID: <517704396F1FDE49B87BB688462024500C2469@orl-exchange2.anteon.com> No issues when I tried. -----Original Message----- From: Chas Argent [mailto:sidirezegh@charter.net] Sent: Wed 4/7/2004 11:12 AM To: Paul Kenny; pete@vftt.co.uk; Aslml@asl-forums.net Cc: Subject: [ASLML] Re: ASL VFTT54 Out Now Hmm, opened fine for me... -Chas > > From: "Paul Kenny" > Date: 2004/04/07 Wed PM 03:02:14 GMT > To: pete@vftt.co.uk, Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: RE: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now > > Am I the only one who cant open this file? > > Paul Kenny > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > makers of quality ASL scenario packs > > Including: > > Fanatic Pack #1 and Fanatic Pack #2, Battlin' Bastards of Bataan plus the > recently released Fanatic Pack #3 > > Check out my website at > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Pete Phillipps" > Reply-To: pete@vftt.co.uk > To: "ASL Mailing List" > Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now > Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:12:20 +0100 > > Hi Everyone, > > A bit late, but the new VFTT is now available from the VFTT web > site at www.vftt.co.uk/vftt54.pdf. > > Pete > > "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished > on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 > Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free > from http://www.vftt.co.uk > Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at > http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf > Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL > tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm > Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and > safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp > > > From sgtono at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 09:40:05 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Wed Apr 7 09:41:38 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: ASL VFTT54 Out Now In-Reply-To: <200404071512.i37FCHQv013648@mxsf10.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <20040407164005.40636.qmail@web20724.mail.yahoo.com> It opened fine for me but when you get to the FKAC errata page there is a font error and the Night Matrix page has an error. Which he confirmed to me, that on one of his PC he got the same error. He may have fixed since I downloaded it a few days ago. Keith --- Chas Argent wrote: > Hmm, opened fine for me... > > -Chas > > > > > From: "Paul Kenny" > > Date: 2004/04/07 Wed PM 03:02:14 GMT > > To: pete@vftt.co.uk, Aslml@asl-forums.net > > Subject: RE: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now > > > > Am I the only one who cant open this file? > > > > Paul Kenny > > > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > > makers of quality ASL scenario packs > > > > Including: > > > > Fanatic Pack #1 and Fanatic Pack #2, Battlin' > Bastards of Bataan plus the > > recently released Fanatic Pack #3 > > > > Check out my website at > > > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "Pete Phillipps" > > Reply-To: pete@vftt.co.uk > > To: "ASL Mailing List" > > Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now > > Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:12:20 +0100 > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > A bit late, but the new VFTT is now available > from the VFTT web > > site at www.vftt.co.uk/vftt54.pdf. > > > > Pete > > > > "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won > by soldiers nourished > > on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 > > Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier > ASL Journal) free > > from http://www.vftt.co.uk > > Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in > Blackpool) at > > http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf > > Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE > (Britain's biggest ASL > > tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm > > Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system > (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release > Date: 31/03/2004 > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure > your PC is protected and > > safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp > > > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From ddgoff at aep.com Wed Apr 7 11:31:15 2004 From: ddgoff at aep.com (ddgoff@aep.com) Date: Wed Apr 7 11:40:08 2004 Subject: [ASLML] VASL difficulties Message-ID: Gents, First, let me say that VASL is great. If it weren't for the efforts of Rodney, the Cabal, et. al., I'd be playing a lot less. Thank you Now then, what am I doing wrong? I've downloaded and installed all the latest files (JRE, VASSAL, VASL). When I view my opponent's log file, I see his moves reported in the text window but nothing moves on screen. I've updated my video driver, monkeyed with the video settings, adjusted everything I know how within VASL, all to no avail. What gives? David P. S. If we all pitch in a buck or two, maybe we can buy Ole a fresh new sig. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From helgin at hotmail.com Tue Apr 6 23:10:35 2004 From: helgin at hotmail.com (Kimmo K) Date: Wed Apr 7 13:06:13 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Bypass problemo Message-ID: Hi all there seems to be 2 differing opinions now. Granted to mr BP that the rule section D2.31 says what it says, but this leaves it still unclear to me (apologies to mr BP as I cannot share his simple straightforward observation). >On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:09:58 +0000, "Kimmo K" wrote: > > >between two hexes both containing singlehex house in the gap there is a >tank > >in stationary bypass on the other hex. let's say hex A. now another >vehicle > >wishes to bypass that same gap using the other houses hex, hex B. > > > >is it legal? looking to RB D2.31 says not... or does it say so? > >Bruce Probst says > >It's not legal, per D2.31. "VBM is not allowed along a hexside already >containing another Bypass vehicle/wreck along that hexside." > >Note that the rule says *hexside*, not hex. Although the bypassing vehicle >is >in a particular hex, it's also along that shared hexside. The second >vehicle >can't also share the hexside, even if you put it in the other hex. > >David Schofield says: >'The bypass gap is between the house and it's hexside, not the house and >the >other house. so it looks fine to me.' now thinking about the actual move in bypass, it happens inside a hex, along A hexside. possibly meant for LOSchecking help, and to clarify the thing ?. that I can understand easy. then all residuals, aqquisitions, smoke hindrances etc. are taken from the actual hex being bypassed. true the hexside is actually common to 2 hexes. but why then you still need to define the actual hex if both are available for Bypass. Why do you measure the possibility for Bypass between the obstacle and the hexside, as following the D2.31 you're thought to be driving ramming speed along the exact hexside line. the Wreck part D10.2 is also talking about wreck in bypass is blocking vehicular entrance to A HEX, then refering to D2.31. The problem with this rule is even more obvious in cases where you have Wall between 2 bypassable hexes, like 10X6/Y7. if i get AFV or wreck in Y7 bypass location in X6/Y7 hexside, do I have to understand this so that I cannot bypass building X6 anymore as there is someone on the otherside of the wall??? mighty big mutha that must be. Cheers! _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From domorich at sprintmail.com Tue Apr 6 23:15:29 2004 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (rich domovic) Date: Wed Apr 7 13:06:16 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: DC residual References: Message-ID: Bruce Probst writes: On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 20:15:36 +0000 (UTC), rich domovic wrote: Can DC toting squad in a building next to a bridge (DASL hex dF2, bridge dE3), throw its DC onto the bridge when a close topped enemy AFV crosses the bridge as Defensive First Fire in order to place 12 residual on the bridge? We thought that it could, the bridge is not affected as in wasn't a "set" DC, and the AFV wasn't affected as it was not the predesignated target. Did we do this correctly? No. If the bridge is not the target, and if you're deliberately *not* targeting the AFV, what exactly *are* you targeting? You can't attack an empty hex just for the hell of it in DFF. If you're attempting to target the AFV (which is legal), you won't leave any residual (since only the designated target can be affected). Your answer makes sense, how about this though. If the AFV had exposed PRC, the unit could throw the DC and attack the vulnerable PRC (not the Placement process on the AFV) at 30+4 So why can't the unit throw the DC on the AFV if PRC aren't vulnerable? Rich From domorich at sprintmail.com Tue Apr 6 23:22:35 2004 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (rich domovic) Date: Wed Apr 7 13:06:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: SV: DC residual References: <4C40C6148BACD711AEF800805F8B335E0113836B@exchange1.bournemouth.ac.uk> Message-ID: David Schofield writes: bridge hexside? Sorry, A8.26 actually says "bridge/hexside" Rich From macx81 at pop.dial.pipex.com Wed Apr 7 08:18:09 2004 From: macx81 at pop.dial.pipex.com (Steve Crowley) Date: Wed Apr 7 13:06:22 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <407429C1.14594.123F516@localhost> I managed to save the pdf to my hard disk using "Save target as" Cheers Steve Crowley > Am I the only one who cant open this file? > > Paul Kenny > > Owner of Fanatic Enterprises > makers of quality ASL scenario packs > > Including: > > Fanatic Pack #1 and Fanatic Pack #2, Battlin' Bastards of Bataan plus the > recently released Fanatic Pack #3 > > Check out my website at > > http://fanaticenterprises.tripod.com/ > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Pete Phillipps" > Reply-To: pete@vftt.co.uk > To: "ASL Mailing List" > Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now > Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:12:20 +0100 > > Hi Everyone, > > A bit late, but the new VFTT is now available from the VFTT web > site at www.vftt.co.uk/vftt54.pdf. > > Pete > > "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished > on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 > Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free > from http://www.vftt.co.uk > Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at > http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf > Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL > tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm > Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and > safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp > > From rln22 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 10:36:21 2004 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Beseler) Date: Wed Apr 7 13:06:28 2004 Subject: [ASLML] OBA SMOKE Message-ID: Dear Listers, If, as an FFE1, I place OBA SMOKE in the DFPh, is it the case that that SMOKE is placed as dispersed SMOKE, and that it will only hinder my opponent for his AFPH, before dissapearing at the beginning of my PFPh? In other words, is it fair to say that the OBA SMOKE one places in one's own PFPh is FAR more effective than that placed in the DFPh? Yours, Beseler From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Wed Apr 7 14:32:56 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Wed Apr 7 13:34:32 2004 Subject: [ASLML] OBA SMOKE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c41ce7$e4b49700$6401a8c0@NewDell> >In other words, is it fair to say that the OBA SMOKE >one places in one's own PFPh is FAR more effective >than that placed in the DFPh? Yes. DFPh SMOKE is normally not very helpful, especially as the Attacker (or side with the initiative if there is no Attacker). From dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk Wed Apr 7 14:20:26 2004 From: dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk (David Schofield) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:25:13 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Bypass problemo Message-ID: <4C40C6148BACD711AEF800805F8B335E01138375@exchange1.bournemouth.ac.uk> Having looked at again I'll side with Bruce only because I think the rule is making it clear that 2 vehicles can't occupy the same common vertex. And it's a mechanic to stop vehicles buggering about between buildings!! :-) cheers David -----Original Message----- From: Kimmo K To: Aslml@asl-forums.net Sent: 07/04/04 07:10 Subject: Re: [ASLML] Bypass problemo Hi all there seems to be 2 differing opinions now. Granted to mr BP that the rule section D2.31 says what it says, but this leaves it still unclear to me (apologies to mr BP as I cannot share his simple straightforward observation). >On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:09:58 +0000, "Kimmo K" wrote: > > >between two hexes both containing singlehex house in the gap there is a >tank > >in stationary bypass on the other hex. let's say hex A. now another >vehicle > >wishes to bypass that same gap using the other houses hex, hex B. > > > >is it legal? looking to RB D2.31 says not... or does it say so? > >Bruce Probst says > >It's not legal, per D2.31. "VBM is not allowed along a hexside already >containing another Bypass vehicle/wreck along that hexside." > >Note that the rule says *hexside*, not hex. Although the bypassing vehicle >is >in a particular hex, it's also along that shared hexside. The second >vehicle >can't also share the hexside, even if you put it in the other hex. > >David Schofield says: >'The bypass gap is between the house and it's hexside, not the house and >the >other house. so it looks fine to me.' now thinking about the actual move in bypass, it happens inside a hex, along A hexside. possibly meant for LOSchecking help, and to clarify the thing ?. that I can understand easy. then all residuals, aqquisitions, smoke hindrances etc. are taken from the actual hex being bypassed. true the hexside is actually common to 2 hexes. but why then you still need to define the actual hex if both are available for Bypass. Why do you measure the possibility for Bypass between the obstacle and the hexside, as following the D2.31 you're thought to be driving ramming speed along the exact hexside line. the Wreck part D10.2 is also talking about wreck in bypass is blocking vehicular entrance to A HEX, then refering to D2.31. The problem with this rule is even more obvious in cases where you have Wall between 2 bypassable hexes, like 10X6/Y7. if i get AFV or wreck in Y7 bypass location in X6/Y7 hexside, do I have to understand this so that I cannot bypass building X6 anymore as there is someone on the otherside of the wall??? mighty big mutha that must be. Cheers! _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From jbarber at meic.org Wed Apr 7 15:47:42 2004 From: jbarber at meic.org (Jeff Barber) Date: Wed Apr 7 15:49:30 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Looking for a game Message-ID: My wife and kids are headed out of town so I'm looking for a game via live VASL (version 4) Friday night. Just something short that can be finished in one session. I've actually never played any of the T series of scenarios and wouldn't mind trying: T1 Gavin Take (yes, I'm the only player alive that hasn't played it) T3 Ranger Stronghold T4 Shklov's Labors Lost or something similar. I'm in the Mountain time zone and could start around 6:00 pm. Let me know if you're interested. -- Jeff Barber From hastrup at image.dk Wed Apr 7 15:11:46 2004 From: hastrup at image.dk (Michael) Date: Wed Apr 7 16:00:51 2004 Subject: [ASLML] RR CG MG Pltn question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c41ced$54d8ae90$8d4b36d4@MICHAELHL> I and my fellow Copenhagen ASL'er Torben Jorgensen are about to start the fourth scenario ; 20AM. We have had a lot of fun so far. Torben as the Canadien player has got 43 LVP and controls 13 at the moment. My goal is to take 3 from him this scenario. Here comes the question ; I have depleted my German MG Pltn, so what happens? Do I get one of each ? Thanks in advance regards Michael Hastrup-Leth, Denmark From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Apr 7 17:22:39 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:24:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Bypass problemo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0e6970d7hemtdelmg455biesa65brpnnb1@4ax.com> On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:10:35 +0000, "Kimmo K" wrote: >now thinking about the actual move in bypass, it happens inside a hex, along >A hexside. possibly meant for LOSchecking help, and to clarify the thing ?. >that I can understand easy. then all residuals, aqquisitions, smoke >hindrances etc. are taken from the actual hex being bypassed. Correct. >Why do you measure the >possibility for Bypass between the obstacle and the hexside, as following >the D2.31 you're thought to be driving ramming speed along the exact hexside >line. Don't obsess on the "reality" behind the rule, it will get you nowhere. Just concentrate on what the rule is actually saying -- which is, no more than one vehicle/wreck along a hexside. >the Wreck part D10.2 is also talking about wreck in bypass is blocking >vehicular entrance to A HEX, then refering to D2.31. The problem with this >rule is even more obvious in cases where you have Wall between 2 bypassable >hexes, like 10X6/Y7. if i get AFV or wreck in Y7 bypass location in X6/Y7 >hexside, do I have to understand this so that I cannot bypass building X6 >anymore as there is someone on the otherside of the wall??? mighty big mutha >that must be. Life's tough, isn't it? Consider the woods hex in 2S5: there's an enormous "real" gap along the S5/S6 and S5/T6 hexsides, but that little blob of woods on the vertex prevents any bypass movement. In game terms, there's no way to exploit that obvious gap. What are you gonna do? It's how the game works. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From weflemi at mbj.nifty.com Wed Apr 7 17:22:46 2004 From: weflemi at mbj.nifty.com (Will Fleming) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:24:33 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade In-Reply-To: <20040407151531.91784.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000101c41cff$9e23a1b0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Looking at the recent list of past champions, there aren't a lot of BC's on the list.... DOH! I do hope you guys come up in force 'cuz you are a fun bunch and bring quite a few good players. Will -----Original Message----- From: Airius [mailto:airius@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:16 AM To: Sam Belcher; 'Will Fleming'; Aslml@asl-forums.net Subject: RE: [ASLML] Enfilade Last time I checked you were 0-2 against me Sam, so I am just going to have to come up there and kick your a$$ again and make it 0-3(and 0-4, and 0-5, and 0-6) just to remind you. What does Sam, the Puget sounders, and Tampa Bay have in common? "They invented losing!" -Wes, the non-commissar BC --- Sam Belcher wrote: > > Sam/All, > > > > Any info on scenarios and such? The link up at > MMP is broken BTW. > > Probably broken because I typed "http:// in front of > the website name. I've > since re-entered it correctly, but it hasn't > changed. > > At least one round will feature "Hall of Fame" > scenarios. These are listed > in Journal 4, I believe and are all excellent > scenarios. > > > I will be very disappointed if some of the > Portland crew > > doesn't make it up this year. After having been > away from > > ASL for so long, I am looking for some easy > 'marks'. :) > > The "Portland Patsy's" should show up in some > numbers again this year. They > just love getting beaten over, and over, and over > again.... ;) > > Sam > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Apr 7 17:31:40 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:33:21 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: DC residual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9r6970phi1pkhct5pmjg2eo16df7uv7q0q@4ax.com> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:15:29 +0000 (UTC), rich domovic wrote: >Your answer makes sense, how about this though. If the AFV had exposed PRC, the >unit could throw the DC and attack the vulnerable PRC (not the Placement >process on the AFV) at 30+4 So why can't the unit throw the DC on the AFV if >PRC aren't vulnerable? Actually, no it can't. A23.5 and D.8 both make it clear that DCs are *not* like Small Arms: in order to affect an AFV (including any Vulnerable PRC), you have to target the AFV (D.8A). To harm the PRC with a DC, you have to target the AFV. If the vehicle were unarmoured, yes, you could just throw the DC and resolve it normally -- but because the vehicle is armoured, D.8A applies. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Apr 7 17:39:24 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:41:05 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9e7970dagp6aqo7alqopu7uqvqg87je3g4@4ax.com> On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:49:06 -0400, "Bruce Bakken" wrote: >The Collateral Attack does not leave Residual FP, but the original attack >versus the AFV does. No, Bruce. There *is* no "original attack". There is only the attack targeting the AFV, which can also make a Specific Collateral Attack. >When a vehicle is pre-designated as the attack, we know that no other unit >is affected by that attack. Likewise, no other unit than the PRC are >affected by a Specific Collateral Attack. > >This has no bearing on the Residual FP left by the original pre-designated >attack. Without the attack vs. the AFV, there is *no* "original attack". There is *only* the attack vs. the pre-designated target. >See the D.8 EX on page D2 [2nd Ed] for an example of ordnance TH striking >the vehicle, making a TK DR, and leaving (ROF dependent) Residual FP. I believe that EX is in error. It doesn't gibe with what D.8 actually says. (The EX is talking about a MG making a TH/TK attempt, so it uses the "Vehicle Target Type" line of the Collateral Attack Table, not the "MG" line; that is a Specific Collateral Attack, which leaves no Residual; the original TH/TK attack can't leave Residual either, because no IFT FP was being used!) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Apr 7 17:43:44 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:45:24 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: <000001c41c9e$f0e97a20$6401a8c0@NewDell> References: <000001c41c9e$f0e97a20$6401a8c0@NewDell> Message-ID: <0r7970pl5mpvgtbabivhnhtq9gru79jejf@4ax.com> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:50:43 -0500, "Brian W" wrote: >I disagree. Collateral attacks never leave residual, but the attack that >created the collateral attack does. In other words, the attack that >created the collateral attack is what creates the residual. I believe that D.8 says exactly the opposite. In the case of Specific Collateral Attacks, there is no "original attack", there is only the attack vs. the vehicle. > So, if you >hit a tank with a MG TK attack, you (possibly) leave residual regardless >of whether the tank was killed or not or whether there was a collateral >attack due to the TK attempt. Per A8.2 "If the attack includes a To Kill >DR vs a vehicle, Residual FP is created in the same manner. . ." You're correct that A8.2 does indeed say that. I don't know how to resolve that with what D.8 says. It seems to me that one of them is contradicting the other. Time for a Q to Perry, I guess .... >Of course, this question has to do with thrown DC, so the likelihood of >a destroyed AFV is slim. I suspect that residual was meant to be placed >even if no TK DR was made (due to poor placement DR), but that is not >covered by the rules as far as I can tell. Right. It doesn't happen. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From sgtono at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 17:45:13 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:46:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade In-Reply-To: <000101c41cff$9e23a1b0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Message-ID: <20040408004513.62186.qmail@web20724.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Mr. Fleming, I just joined the BC's last October but I have been playing ASL since it came out. I look forward to trouncing the Puget snivelers and meeting you. >From where do you hail? Keith --- Will Fleming wrote: > Looking at the recent list of past champions, there > aren't a lot of BC's on > the list.... > > DOH! > > I do hope you guys come up in force 'cuz you are a > fun bunch and bring quite > a few good players. > > Will > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Airius [mailto:airius@yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 12:16 AM > To: Sam Belcher; 'Will Fleming'; > Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Enfilade > > Last time I checked you were 0-2 against me Sam, so > I > am just going to have to come up there and kick your > a$$ again and make it 0-3(and 0-4, and 0-5, and 0-6) > just to remind you. > > What does Sam, the Puget sounders, and Tampa Bay > have > in common? "They invented losing!" > > -Wes, the non-commissar BC > > > > --- Sam Belcher wrote: > > > Sam/All, > > > > > > Any info on scenarios and such? The link up at > > MMP is broken BTW. > > > > Probably broken because I typed "http:// in front > of > > the website name. I've > > since re-entered it correctly, but it hasn't > > changed. > > > > At least one round will feature "Hall of Fame" > > scenarios. These are listed > > in Journal 4, I believe and are all excellent > > scenarios. > > > > > I will be very disappointed if some of the > > Portland crew > > > doesn't make it up this year. After having been > > away from > > > ASL for so long, I am looking for some easy > > 'marks'. :) > > > > The "Portland Patsy's" should show up in some > > numbers again this year. They > > just love getting beaten over, and over, and over > > again.... ;) > > > > Sam > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Wed Apr 7 18:09:23 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Wed Apr 7 18:11:03 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade In-Reply-To: <000101c41cff$9e23a1b0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Message-ID: <001601c41d06$21721370$647ba8c0@samb03> > Last time I checked you were 0-2 against me Sam, so I > am just going to have to come up there and kick your > a$$ again and make it 0-3(and 0-4, and 0-5, and 0-6) > just to remind you. And another thing.... I've been 0-6 before - against newbies!! Sam "Been there, done that!" Belcher From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Apr 7 18:13:42 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Apr 7 18:15:24 2004 Subject: [ASLML] RR CG MG Pltn question In-Reply-To: <000201c41ced$54d8ae90$8d4b36d4@MICHAELHL> References: <000201c41ced$54d8ae90$8d4b36d4@MICHAELHL> Message-ID: <5a9970thdnkrkugor5t5vf9rf2p0i2n6t1@4ax.com> On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:11:46 +0200, "Michael" wrote: >Here comes the question ; I have depleted my German MG Pltn, so what >happens? Do I get one of each ? Per Z2.5192, you will get a minimum of 2 SW with a depleted HW group. A full-strength group has 2 HMG and 2 MMG; you roll one die for each. Suppose your dr are as follows: HMG 1: "4" -- you receive it. HMG 2: "5" -- you don't. MMG 1: "6" -- you don't. MMG 2: "5" -- you don't. However, you're guaranteed to receive 2, so you roll again for the ones you missed. As soon as one of them succeeds, you have your two MGs and you stop rolling. Which of the MGs you actually get depends on what you rolled and in what order you rolled for them. Of course, once you've rolled once for each MG, if you already have 2 (or more), you don't make any re-rolls. Note that you only get as many Crews as MGs you successfully rolled for! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Wed Apr 7 20:14:53 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Wed Apr 7 19:16:41 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: <0r7970pl5mpvgtbabivhnhtq9gru79jejf@4ax.com> Message-ID: <000001c41d17$aec361f0$6401a8c0@NewDell> >You're correct that A8.2 does indeed say that. I don't know >how to resolve that with what D.8 says. It seems to me that >one of them is contradicting the other. Time for a Q to >Perry, I guess .... A collateral attack is the side effect of another attack. The other attack is what causes the residual, not the collateral attack. There is no contradiction between D.8 and A8.2. A7.307 adds that a vehicle may be attacked by small arms even if there are no vulnerable PRC just to place resid, which is the incorporation of this Q&A: A7.1 & A8.1 May a unit use Small Arms (or non-ordnance MG) to DFF on the IFT at a moving BU, CT AFV for the sole purpose of laying down a Fire Lane or leaving Residual FP? A. Yes. {97} Interpreting D.8 the way you are would mean that resid is left only if there are no vulnerable PRC! >Right. It doesn't happen. A thrown DC can destroy an AFV. That would leave resid. What is murkier to me is what kind of resid is placed if no TK DR is made. I do agree that you must pre-designate the AFV as the target during DFF [EXC: Armored Assault], at least in the absence of a Q&A saying otherwise. From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Wed Apr 7 22:17:07 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Wed Apr 7 22:18:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade In-Reply-To: <20040408004513.62186.qmail@web20724.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c41d28$bd3067e0$647ba8c0@samb03> Keith Todd wrote: > Hello Mr. Fleming, > > I just joined the BC's last October but I have been > playing ASL since it came out. I look forward to > trouncing the Puget snivelers and meeting you. Hey, Keith. Just because you've played for a long time doesn't mean you're any good at this game. I aught to know!!! Sam "My money's on Will" Belcher From rockgheba at libero.it Thu Apr 8 01:11:44 2004 From: rockgheba at libero.it (Mario Nadalini) Date: Thu Apr 8 01:50:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... References: <407273C700000009@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> Message-ID: <01fa01c41d46$48ab0420$d7161997@tequila> Hi Ole, welcome back! First of all, thank you for your charts. Your IIFT(M)QRDC v2.4 has been sitting here right in front of me at the left of my screen for more than a year now. And when it's not near my PC, she's 3 feet away on my gaming table! I don't know if it's the latest version, but I noticed a mistake that surely someone has already reported to you: there is a no-leadership triangle in the ambush section, instead of the leader creation section. It does also seem to me that you missed another triangle in the HE & FLAME TO KILL TABLE on the back. About the format... A4! The best! I did put it in a page protector and now that killer QRDC is also easy transportable and durable. For what it's worth, that's my 2c opinion. Be well and keep playing! From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Thu Apr 8 06:27:34 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Thu Apr 8 05:29:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] FW: Q and A Request for ASL Message-ID: <000001c41d6d$41069e10$6401a8c0@NewDell> >Rule:B2.1 >Question:If an FFE attack results in the placement of shellholes and >the removal >of an entrenchment, is that same attack resolved against units within that >entrenchment using the TEM of the entrenchment or the TEM of the shellholes? Entrenchment. ....Perry MMP From bebakken at hotmail.com Thu Apr 8 05:41:36 2004 From: bebakken at hotmail.com (Bruce Bakken) Date: Thu Apr 8 05:43:25 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual Message-ID: > > >The Collateral Attack does not leave Residual FP, but the original attack > >versus the AFV does. > >No, Bruce. There *is* no "original attack". There is only the attack >targeting the AFV, which can also make a Specific Collateral Attack. > ... the attack targeting the AFV can also leave Residual FP. Assume that there are no Vulnerable PRC. Are you claiming that any attack pre-designated versus an AFV may not leave Residual FP? If this is your claim, it is so clearly at odds with A8.2 that you will have to show me something other than D.8 to back it up. > >When a vehicle is pre-designated as the attack, we know that no other >unit > >is affected by that attack. Likewise, no other unit than the PRC are > >affected by a Specific Collateral Attack. > > > >This has no bearing on the Residual FP left by the original >pre-designated > >attack. > >Without the attack vs. the AFV, there is *no* "original attack". There is >*only* the attack vs. the pre-designated target. > The attack versus the AFV is the "original attack" I am talking about! > >See the D.8 EX on page D2 [2nd Ed] for an example of ordnance TH striking > >the vehicle, making a TK DR, and leaving (ROF dependent) Residual FP. > >I believe that EX is in error. It doesn't gibe with what D.8 actually >says. >(The EX is talking about a MG making a TH/TK attempt, so it uses the >"Vehicle >Target Type" line of the Collateral Attack Table, not the "MG" line; that >is a >Specific Collateral Attack, which leaves no Residual; the original TH/TK >attack can't leave Residual either, because no IFT FP was being used!) > I believe you are in error, and do not fully understand the mechanics of Collateral Attack. Look again in D.8: "A Collateral Attack (whether General or Specific) is resolved as a *separate attack vs the vehicle's Vulnerable PRC* immediately subsequent to the resolution of the *attack vs the vehicle*..." (My italics.) Can you see that there are two events described here? The first event that occurs is the "attack vs the vehicle". This could occur in any number of ways. Then, if necessary the second event is the "attack vs the vehicle's Vulnerable PRC", made *after* resolution of the attack versus the vehicle. If there are no Vulnerable PRC, or if the vehicle is destroyed, this second event does not occur. Now transposing this to the last sentence of D.8, the second event (Collateral Attack vs Vulnerable PRC) does not leave Residual FP. That's all it says. I.e., the writers want us to make sure that we don't treat this "separate attack" as sufficient for placing an addition Residual FP counter in the Location. The first event (the attack vs the vehicle) leaves Residual FP normally as per A8.2, and nothing in D.8 changes that. Here's the test for Residual FP: 1. Has a unit been attacked by Defensive First Fire? Yes; proceed. 2. Does the attack include a TK DR? Yes; proceed. 3. Is the TK DR from non-MG AP, ATR, APCR, APDS or a Dud? No; proceed. 4. Place Residual FP in the Location in which the attack is resolved. It's so easy to follow and figure out, it's painful. A Collateral Attack (the "subsequent" attack *after* the vehicle is attacked) does not leave Residual FP. But the attack versus the AFV (resolved *prior* to the Collateral Attack) does leave Residual FP. Regards, Bruce Bakken _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ From bebakken at hotmail.com Thu Apr 8 06:05:58 2004 From: bebakken at hotmail.com (Bruce Bakken) Date: Thu Apr 8 06:07:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: DC residual Message-ID: > > >Your answer makes sense, how about this though. If the AFV had exposed >PRC, the > >unit could throw the DC and attack the vulnerable PRC (not the Placement > >process on the AFV) at 30+4 So why can't the unit throw the DC on the AFV >if > >PRC aren't vulnerable? > During Defensive First Fire, you could only Throw the DC at the moving AFV if the AFV is pre-designated as the target. During any other phase, you could Throw the DC into the AFV's Location in order to attack the Vulnerable PRC, but then the AFV itself would not be affected. >Actually, no it can't. A23.5 and D.8 both make it clear that DCs are *not* >like Small Arms: in order to affect an AFV (including any Vulnerable PRC), >you >have to target the AFV (D.8A). To harm the PRC with a DC, you have to >target >the AFV. > I assume that you are referring here to Defensive First Fire using a Thrown DC. Otherwise, this statement makes no sense. Even though normal Placement of a DC does not affect an AFV unless the AFV is pre-designated as the target, the Vulnerable PRC can be attacked by a DC with a General Collateral Attack. Simply Place the DC in the AFV's Location (PAATC), and it detonates. The AFV is unaffected, but the Vulnerable PRC are attacked with a General Collateral Attack (D.8B). However, to Throw a DC at a moving AFV's Location would require that the AFV be the pre-designated target, since the moving AFV is the target that qualifies for Defensive First Fire. >If the vehicle were unarmoured, yes, you could just throw the DC and >resolve >it normally -- but because the vehicle is armoured, D.8A applies. > I'm not sure why you keep raising D.8, when the effect versus the Vulnerable PRC is not even the issue. At issue -- I think -- is whether a moving AFV can be the Defensive First Fire target of a Thrown DC, and whether that attack leaves Residual FP. I'm not sure why you have kept raising Collateral Attacks, which after all only affect how to attack the Vulnerable PRC. If there are no Vulnerable PRC, then D.8 does not enter the picture at all. A Thrown DC versus a moving AFV must be pre-designated as being versus the AFV. When the attack is made versus the AFV, it leaves Residual FP per A8.2. If there are Vulnerable PRC, those PRC are attacked as well with a Specific Collateral Attack (D.8A). A Specific Collateral Attack does not leave Residual FP of its own. A Specific Collateral Attack does not affect the amount of Residual FP left by the attack versus the AFV. Regards, Bruce Bakken >---------------------------------------------------------------- >Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au >Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 >"Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" >ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > _________________________________________________________________ Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 months! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From sgtono at yahoo.com Thu Apr 8 06:15:52 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Thu Apr 8 06:17:43 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade In-Reply-To: <000701c41d28$bd3067e0$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <20040408131552.58275.qmail@web20724.mail.yahoo.com> Sam wrote: >Hey, Keith. Just because you've played for a long >time doesn't mean >you're >any good at this game. >I aught to know!!! Agree, but it is fun. But that does not change the fact that I will win. Keith __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From MPitcavage at adl.org Thu Apr 8 09:50:09 2004 From: MPitcavage at adl.org (Pitcavage, Mark) Date: Thu Apr 8 09:52:04 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Playtesters Wanted! Awesome Java Scenarios Message-ID: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576EC68B11@nymail.adl.org> Hey, folks. I am soliciting some playtesters for several scenarios set in Java in October-December 1945, following the Japanese surrender. The British came in to Java to accept the Japanese surrender, but the native Indonesians had other ideas and launched a rebellion so that their former Dutch colonial masters could not be reinstated. This period features a swirl of guerrilla and city fighting involving British, Japanese, and Indonesians. Scenarios include: Java 1: The IJA's Last Offensive. The last independent offensive of the Imperial Japanese Army, launched over a month after their surrender! Watch what happens to you if you execute a bunch of IJA soldiers! Java 2: Fighting Cock Down. In an action eerily reminiscent of the action portrayed in the movie/book "Black Hawk Down," an Indian convoy of trucks full of civilians is ambushed in a crowded city by angry mobs of Indonesians. Can you guide the civilians to safety? Or will this be your last stand? Java 3: Unlikely Allies. British and Japanese, working together, try to clear Indonesian rebels out of a Javanese city. The only problem? The Indonesians were trained and armed by the Japanese! Now the Japanese can learn what it means to have a DC Hero come charging at you! These scenarios will appear in a special scenario pack that will feature scenarios designed by a number of ASL luminaries (I am not at liberty to discuss the details yet). You've got to get in the ground floor on this one! These are some of the coolest, most unusual scenarios around!!! If you are interested in playtesting, please e-mail me at mark.pitcavage@worldnet.att.net. Please, only send an e-mail if you can commit yourself to playtest at least one scenario one time. Thanks so much!!!!!! From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Apr 8 18:49:43 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Apr 8 18:52:12 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8jvb70l4dlpha9plggg7j2m7nh5nq3rv15@4ax.com> On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 08:41:36 -0400, "Bruce Bakken" wrote: >Assume that there are no Vulnerable PRC. Are you claiming that any attack >pre-designated versus an AFV may not leave Residual FP? That would be my understanding of D.8, yes. >If this is your claim, it is so clearly at odds with A8.2 that you will have >to show me something other than D.8 to back it up. I have already pointed out that it seems to me that A8.2 and D.8 are contradictory. I don't have an answer for that. >The attack versus the AFV is the "original attack" I am talking about! But how does it leave Residual FP when it is exerting no original IFT FP? It's a TK DR. TK DR only have "FP equivalency" for the sake of attacks vs. Personnel and Collateral Attacks (C8.31). This isn't an attack vs. Personnel, and we all seem to be in agreement that Collateral Attacks don't leave Residual. So where is the FP that you would base your Residual on? I have sent a Q to Perry. I understand your argument, it's just at this point I don't agree with it (because I don't think D.8 says what you think it says). I may well be in error, but at this time I don't see what I'm supposedly missing. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Apr 8 18:55:33 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Apr 8 18:57:30 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:41:25 -0500, "Rich Domovic" wrote: >A. Can a squad with DC throw the DC in Defensive First Fire as a >predesignated attack versus a BU AFV in an adjacent open ground hex and if, >after placement determination, the final IFT result is not a 12 malfunction, >will the DC attack leave residual (12 reduced two columns for the +2 thrown >DRM)? Well, I don't think anyone is claiming that you are not allowed to attack the AFV; the issue is whether any Residual is placed. I say no, others say yes; this is the only issue that Perry needs to address. >B. Can a squad throw the DC into the AFV's hex as a general attack, not able >to affect the non-vulnerable PRC (or AFV) but still leave residual? > >C. Can a squad throw the DC into a CE AFV's hex as a general attack, able to >affect the vulnerable PRC and leave residual? The answer to these two can *only* be "no"; you can only use DFF vs. the currently moving unit, which in this case is the AFV, which *must* be pre-designated. Vulnerable PRC can *only* be harmed by a Specific Collateral Attack (which never leaves Residual) when the target must be pre-designated, as here. You can't attack the hex *instead of* the AFV in DFF! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Apr 8 19:01:09 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Apr 8 19:03:06 2004 Subject: [ASLML] RR CG MG Pltn question In-Reply-To: <000001c41d90$132b08a0$2802a8c0@mba.wfu.edu> References: <5a9970thdnkrkugor5t5vf9rf2p0i2n6t1@4ax.com> <000001c41d90$132b08a0$2802a8c0@mba.wfu.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 13:36:49 -0400, "Dave Reenstra" wrote: >Hmmm, I disagree. My read on Z2.5192 is that, given the above situation, where >the initial set of rolls for the SWs generate less than the minimum required, >you toss out the entire *set* and make an entirely new set of rolls until you >get the minimum required. OK, yes, I agree that the rule does actually say that. I glossed over it because that seemed to me to be the "hard" way to do it (by ignoring rolls that had already been successful). Mea culpa. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Apr 8 19:04:39 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Apr 8 19:06:36 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Bypass problemo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <831c709sio3ub26880b1eb3d6n2ham0p96@4ax.com> On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:45:52 +0000, "Kimmo K" wrote: >>Consider the woods hex in 2S5: there's an enormous >>"real" gap along the S5/S6 and S5/T6 hexsides, but that little blob of >>woods >>on the vertex prevents any bypass movement. In game terms, there's no way >>to >>exploit that obvious gap. > >...it certainly is. I can see. Well, obviously there's LOS through the gap, but I meant that there's no way to exploit it for movement purposes. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Apr 8 19:17:55 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Apr 8 19:19:53 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: DC residual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <971c705khaa8j1trh3e0u95vf9ingjelhi@4ax.com> On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:05:58 -0400, "Bruce Bakken" wrote: >During any other phase, you could Throw the DC into the AFV's Location in >order to attack the Vulnerable PRC, but then the AFV itself would not be >affected. This is *not true*. An AFV can *only* be affected by a DC if it is the Pre-Designated target. Vulnerable PRCs are only harmed by Specific Collateral Attacks (*not* General Collateral Attacks) when the AFV is the pre-designated target. This is painfully clear (if I may borrow your words) from the Collateral Attack Table (and A23.5, which is not superceded by anything in A23.6). >Even though normal Placement of a DC does not affect an AFV unless the AFV >is pre-designated as the target, the Vulnerable PRC can be attacked by a DC >with a General Collateral Attack. No, Bruce. I have quoted the rules above which say precisely the opposite. DCs vs AFVs -- in *any* situation -- must pre-designate the AFV as its target in order to have any effect on Vulnerable PRC (through a Specific Collateral Attack). DCs do *not* make "General Collateral Attacks" against armoured targets *under any circumstances*. >Simply Place the DC in the AFV's Location (PAATC), and it detonates. The >AFV is unaffected, but the Vulnerable PRC are attacked with a General >Collateral Attack (D.8B). D.8B says *exactly* the opposite. "When a vehicle is subjected to ... FP which is *not* required to predesignate it as a target ...." (My emphasis.) AFVs *are* required to be pre-designated, per A23.5, so nothing in D.8B is applicable. Again, this is painfully clear. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Thu Apr 8 19:23:30 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Thu Apr 8 19:25:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Playtesters Wanted! Awesome Java Scenarios In-Reply-To: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576EC68B11@nymail.adl.org> References: <52168D0FD8A1DE4992D964CAB485576EC68B11@nymail.adl.org> Message-ID: <812c70tt12bov34hva1hbdvtjs6nqfj3md@4ax.com> On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 12:50:09 -0400 , "Pitcavage, Mark" wrote: >You've got to get in the ground floor on this one! These are some of the >coolest, most unusual scenarios around!!! So only playtesters will be allowed to purchase the final product? Interesting marketing technique, but I don't think it will be too successful. (If non-playtesters *are* allowed to purchase the final product, why would anyone *need* to "get in [on] the ground floor"? A very curious choice of phrase, if you ask me.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From weflemi at mbj.nifty.com Fri Apr 9 04:18:57 2004 From: weflemi at mbj.nifty.com (Will Fleming) Date: Fri Apr 9 04:21:05 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Is-2m Message-ID: <000101c41e24$735458a0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> All, Sorry, I am going to play J1 here and it is my first time with the big Stalin tanks. Jackson Keddell unleashed these against me one time, but I have yet to have the pleasure of having them in my OB. One thing that seems silly to me: An Is-2m going against a Panther is better off behind a hedge (+1 TEM) than a wall (HD)?? At least it probably won't come up in this scenario. Dong-Il, get ready for lots of 'sound effects' as I blast away at your guys with these babies! Will From bebakken at hotmail.com Fri Apr 9 05:49:01 2004 From: bebakken at hotmail.com (Bruce Bakken) Date: Fri Apr 9 05:51:07 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual Message-ID: > > >Assume that there are no Vulnerable PRC. Are you claiming that any >attack > >pre-designated versus an AFV may not leave Residual FP? > >That would be my understanding of D.8, yes. > Okay. ... not sure how you got that from D.8 ... > >If this is your claim, it is so clearly at odds with A8.2 that you will >have > >to show me something other than D.8 to back it up. > >I have already pointed out that it seems to me that A8.2 and D.8 are >contradictory. I don't have an answer for that. > Fair enough. (Interestingly, in the 1st Ed ASLRB, D.8 used to be A.8... which changes the ramifications for Rules Order Precedence.) > >The attack versus the AFV is the "original attack" I am talking about! > >But how does it leave Residual FP when it is exerting no original IFT FP? >It's a TK DR. TK DR only have "FP equivalency" for the sake of attacks vs. >Personnel and Collateral Attacks (C8.31). This isn't an attack vs. >Personnel, >and we all seem to be in agreement that Collateral Attacks don't leave >Residual. So where is the FP that you would base your Residual on? > This is your most compelling argument. A8.2 only says "the highest IFT column used for that attack." Since A8.2 also says that for a To Kill DR, "Residual FP is created in the same manner", I would take that to mean to use whatever FP column would have been used had the target been Personnel. As far as I'm concerned, that might be the only uncertain issue. I also found this in A8.22: "A Collateral Attack never leaves Residual FP but the attack that causes it may." Except as found in A8.2, which excludes AP, APDS, APCR, et al. And in A8.25: "An ordnance weapon must secure a hit in order to exert Residual FP... Neither Intensive Fire (C5.6), AP-type ammo (see 8.2), nor PF/PFk (C13.31) leaves Residual FP." By default, that means that any other Vehicle Target hit using non-AP-type ammo would also leave Residual FP. >I have sent a Q to Perry. I understand your argument, it's just at this >point >I don't agree with it (because I don't think D.8 says what you think it >says). >I may well be in error, but at this time I don't see what I'm supposedly >missing. > Understood. Interesting though about D.8, because I would have never looked there to establish the possibility of Residual FP. Frankly, I view D.8 as irrelevant to the discussion of Residual FP caused by an attack versus an AFV that uses a TK DR. Regards, Bruce Bakken _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From khris at clara.net Fri Apr 9 07:34:25 2004 From: khris at clara.net (Chris Milne) Date: Fri Apr 9 07:36:36 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Book Query: Galicia Division Message-ID: <01C41E48.4C3903A0.khris@clara.net> Hi, Came across this book at a shop the other day, and thought about buying it. However, the author's synopsis made me think that it might contain some SS apologist material (effectively, that they're just a bunch of good old Ukranian nationalists). Has anyone read this or other books by the author, and if so could they let me know their opinions (on all aspects, not just how it deals with the SS factor)? I have found some reviews on the web, but they range from the 'traitors to Ukraine' to 'I know the author and this book is great' to 'these were all upstanding Ukrainians that just happened to be fighting for the Waffen SS, but of course they hated the Nazis as much as the Communists'. Very helpful. Book details: Galicia Division: Waffen SS 14th Grenadier Division 1943-45. Author: Michael O Logusz Publisher: Schiffer Publishing Amazon link: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764300814/qid%3D10815205 07/026-6945702-1588451 Cheers, Chris Milne --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.608 / Virus Database: 388 - Release Date: 03/03/04 From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Fri Apr 9 08:42:09 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Fri Apr 9 08:44:12 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Is-2m In-Reply-To: <000101c41e24$735458a0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Message-ID: <000c01c41e49$39a420c0$647ba8c0@samb03> > Sorry, I am going to play J1 here and it is my first time > with the big Stalin tanks. Jackson Keddell unleashed these > against me one time, but I have yet to have the pleasure of > having them in my OB. > > One thing that seems silly to me: An Is-2m going against a > Panther is better off behind a hedge (+1 TEM) than a wall > (HD)?? At least it probably won't come up in this scenario. These "babies" are essentially hull down all the time!! You can't hurt them with a hull hit in the front... > Dong-Il, get ready for lots of 'sound effects' as I blast > away at your guys with these babies! Sweeeeet. From jbarber at meic.org Fri Apr 9 09:30:09 2004 From: jbarber at meic.org (Jeff Barber) Date: Fri Apr 9 09:32:23 2004 Subject: [ASLML] J19 Merzenhausen Zoo question Message-ID: I'm getting ready to play this scenario Sunday and I have a question regarding SSR4. The Germans take a NTC before the "start of play". The question is: does "the start of play" mean before you the set up of the American off board forces? Technically do you set up in the rally phase (like reinforcements do - after the start of play) or before the start of play (wind-change)? Thanks in advance -- Jeff Barber From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Fri Apr 9 10:58:25 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Fri Apr 9 10:00:28 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Is-2m In-Reply-To: <000c01c41e49$39a420c0$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <000001c41e5c$41f9c910$6401a8c0@NewDell> > These "babies" are essentially hull down all the time!! You > can't hurt them with a hull hit in the front... The caveat being that they are vulnerable to deliberate immobilization when not hull down. Additionally, while being hull down is not much of an advantage when facing a panther, a PF can still penetrate the front hull on a DR5. From oleboe at tiscali.no Fri Apr 9 11:14:41 2004 From: oleboe at tiscali.no (Ole Boe) Date: Fri Apr 9 11:16:51 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: I played ASL for the first time in a year... In-Reply-To: <4pi67092l9rfoa2tf52ia9f88mkn2r5mil@4ax.com> Message-ID: <407273C7000000BF@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> Bruce Probst wrote: >Hey, Ole. You didn't think you were free of the addiction, did you? No, I didn't. I could never sell my ASL stuff, as Joakim Rud just did. >Don't listen to those silly Americans . A4 is the way to go. Colour is >certainly nice, too. Yes, A4 is objectively the best format, but there are so many Americans that are stuck with printers that only print the inferior letter format, so I guess I will pity them this time too, and make a letter version as well. For one pointer to why the A4 is superior, look to: http://www.msi.vxu.se/picme10/F5TN.pdf Bye ----------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say? Me and my body or me and my head? Ole Boe oleboe@tiscali.no From oleboe at tiscali.no Fri Apr 9 11:23:15 2004 From: oleboe at tiscali.no (Ole Boe) Date: Fri Apr 9 11:25:25 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... In-Reply-To: <01fa01c41d46$48ab0420$d7161997@tequila> Message-ID: <407273C7000000C2@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> Mario Nadalini wrote >I don't know if it's the latest version, but I noticed a mistake that surely >someone has already reported to you: there is a no-leadership triangle in >the ambush section, instead of the leader creation section. It does also >seem to me that you missed another triangle in the HE & FLAME TO KILL TABLE >on the back. You're right, and no - this has not been reported to me before, so I wasn't aware. I don't know whether you are the first to notice or the only one not too lazy to tell me but thanks anyway. Bye ----------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say? Me and my body or me and my head? Ole Boe oleboe@tiscali.no From JPAPAS at ci.duluth.mn.us Fri Apr 9 11:54:02 2004 From: JPAPAS at ci.duluth.mn.us (Jeff Papas ) Date: Fri Apr 9 11:56:22 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: I played ASL for the first time in a year... Message-ID: Oh, what the heck. My ancient Laser Jet 4 Plus (boat-anchor) will print in A4. It's not that difficult. Nice work on the first version, Ole. I use it every time I play. Jeff "multi-formatted" Papas >>> "Ole Boe" 04/09/04 01:14PM >>> Bruce Probst wrote: >Hey, Ole. You didn't think you were free of the addiction, did you? No, I didn't. I could never sell my ASL stuff, as Joakim Rud just did. >Don't listen to those silly Americans . A4 is the way to go. Colour is >certainly nice, too. Yes, A4 is objectively the best format, but there are so many Americans that are stuck with printers that only print the inferior letter format, so I guess I will pity them this time too, and make a letter version as well. For one pointer to why the A4 is superior, look to: http://www.msi.vxu.se/picme10/F5TN.pdf Bye ----------------------- If you cut off my head, what do I say? Me and my body or me and my head? Ole Boe oleboe@tiscali.no From smcbee at midtnn.net Fri Apr 9 11:53:15 2004 From: smcbee at midtnn.net (Steve McBee) Date: Fri Apr 9 11:56:56 2004 Subject: [ASLML] J19 Merzenhausen Zoo question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c41e63$ec34dee0$b000a8c0@SteveMcBee> Ok, you are thinking too much. Take a look at the ASOP. Do everything (if it applies) in order of the pre-game sequence. Once you get to the last thing before the Rally phase of Turn 1, roll that NTC then. Then start the game with the 1st player turn Rally phase from the top. Hope that helps. Take care, Steve Jeff asked: The question is: does "the start of play" mean before you the set up of the American off board forces? From davehawk at tampabay.rr.com Fri Apr 9 12:03:38 2004 From: davehawk at tampabay.rr.com (davehawk@tampabay.rr.com) Date: Fri Apr 9 12:05:51 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Is-2m Message-ID: <658c7d657e94.657e94658c7d@tampabay.rr.com> Also, don't forget that you can always claim the +2 TEM of a wall instead of HD at your option. So a wall is always better. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian W Date: Friday, April 9, 2004 1:58 pm Subject: RE: [ASLML] Is-2m > > > These "babies" are essentially hull down all the time!! You > > can't hurt them with a hull hit in the front... > > The caveat being that they are vulnerable to deliberate immobilization > when not hull down. Additionally, while being hull down is not > much of > an advantage when facing a panther, a PF can still penetrate the front > hull on a DR5. > > > From jbarber at meic.org Fri Apr 9 13:01:39 2004 From: jbarber at meic.org (Jeff Barber) Date: Fri Apr 9 13:04:05 2004 Subject: [ASLML] J19 Merzenhausen Zoo question In-Reply-To: <000001c41e63$ec34dee0$b000a8c0@SteveMcBee> References: <000001c41e63$ec34dee0$b000a8c0@SteveMcBee> Message-ID: >Ok, you are thinking too much. Jeez, I've never been accused of that before. -- Jeff Barber From tweniger at telusplanet.net Fri Apr 9 15:12:31 2004 From: tweniger at telusplanet.net (Tom Weniger) Date: Fri Apr 9 15:14:42 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Book Query: Galicia Division In-Reply-To: <01C41E48.4C3903A0.khris@clara.net> References: <01C41E48.4C3903A0.khris@clara.net> Message-ID: <1081548750.2825.5.camel@basement> On Fri, 2004-04-09 at 08:34, Chris Milne wrote: > Hi, > > Came across this book at a shop the other day, and thought about > buying it. However, the author's synopsis made me think that it might > contain some SS apologist material (effectively, that they're just a > bunch of good old Ukranian nationalists). Has anyone read this or > other books by the author, and if so could they let me know their > opinions (on all aspects, not just how it deals with the SS factor)? > > I have found some reviews on the web, but they range from the > 'traitors to Ukraine' to 'I know the author and this book is great' > to 'these were all upstanding Ukrainians that just happened to be > fighting for the Waffen SS, but of course they hated the Nazis as > much as the Communists'. Very helpful. > > Book details: > Galicia Division: Waffen SS 14th Grenadier Division 1943-45. > Author: Michael O Logusz > Publisher: Schiffer Publishing > > Amazon link: > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764300814/qid%3D10815205 > 07/026-6945702-1588451 > > > > Cheers, > Chris Milne Greetings Chris, Just buy it and make an awesome scenario for the rest of us to decide whether they were 'nice' or not... -- Virtually, Tom "I'm the bad cop today" W From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Apr 9 16:40:29 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Fri Apr 9 16:42:41 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: I played ASL for the first time in a year... In-Reply-To: <407273C7000000BF@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> References: <4pi67092l9rfoa2tf52ia9f88mkn2r5mil@4ax.com> <407273C7000000BF@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:14:41 +0200, "Ole Boe" wrote: >Yes, A4 is objectively the best format, but there are so many Americans that >are stuck with printers that only print the inferior letter format, so I >guess I will pity them this time too, and make a letter version as well. Well, I don't think it's their printers that are at fault; I have never seen a printer that couldn't handle both formats equally well. Their trouble is that I don't think that anyone will sell them blank A4 to print on . ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From semenza at a-znet.com Fri Apr 9 17:17:59 2004 From: semenza at a-znet.com (Seth Semenza) Date: Fri Apr 9 17:20:08 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Is-2m Message-ID: <090404100.62275@webbox.com> Hi, According to D4.21 and B9.36 HD behind a wall is not an OPTION to the +2. It is automatic as long as the +2 would normally apply. Seth Semenza ___________________________________________________________ >--- Original Message --- >From: davehawk@tampabay.rr.com >To: Aslml@asl-forums.net >Date: 4/9/04 2:03:38 PM > Also, don't forget that you can always claim the +2 TEM of a wall instead of HD at your option. So a wall is always better. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Brian W >Date: Friday, April 9, 2004 1:58 pm >Subject: RE: [ASLML] Is-2m > >> >> > These "babies" are essentially hull down all the time!! You >> > can't hurt them with a hull hit in the front... >> >> The caveat being that they are vulnerable to deliberate immobilization >> when not hull down. Additionally, while being hull down is not >> much of >> an advantage when facing a panther, a PF can still penetrate the front >> hull on a DR5. >> >> >> > > From jmmcleod at mb.sympatico.ca Fri Apr 9 20:25:27 2004 From: jmmcleod at mb.sympatico.ca (Jim McLeod) Date: Fri Apr 9 17:20:27 2004 Subject: [ASLML] FT34, "Borodino Train Station" Message-ID: <40776927.7B19@mb.sympatico.ca> Listerz; Does anyone out there know of any errata associated with this scenario? I almost played this one today but there were a few questions raised before we started: 1. In the VC, we assumed that the 3 unbroken SE's were Russian SE's. Any other Q's been fielded regarding the VC? 2. Are the Russian entry areas correct? Do the Russians get to come in from both sides of the playing area? 3. It says that the Russian player sets up first but the German player moves first. Does this mean that the Russian player sets up his guys off map first and then the German player sets up his guys on map and then the German player moves first? TIA to anyone who can help out. =Jim= From sgtono at yahoo.com Fri Apr 9 18:00:55 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Fri Apr 9 18:03:05 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: I played ASL for the first time in a year... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040410010055.24091.qmail@web20722.mail.yahoo.com> But I can find envelopes for A4 very easily, go figure ????? --- Bruce Probst wrote: > On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:14:41 +0200, "Ole Boe" > wrote: > > >Yes, A4 is objectively the best format, but there > are so many Americans that > >are stuck with printers that only print the > inferior letter format, so I > >guess I will pity them this time too, and make a > letter version as well. > > Well, I don't think it's their printers that are at > fault; I have never seen a > printer that couldn't handle both formats equally > well. Their trouble is that > I don't think that anyone will sell them blank A4 to > print on . > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au > Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 > "Of course it's phallic. Why wouldn't it be?" > ASL FAQ > http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From sgtono at yahoo.com Fri Apr 9 19:17:43 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Fri Apr 9 19:19:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] OA 15 Shattering the Line Message-ID: <20040410021743.95812.qmail@web20728.mail.yahoo.com> In this scenario, SSR 3 says "All Elite and 1st line Germans units have an ELR of 4. All other German units have an ELR of 2." Considering that this will have a tremendous impact on the Germans since the OOB has no 1st line units listed, was this statement intended to say the 2nd line German units have an ELR of 4 ? Keith Todd __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From smcbee at midtnn.net Fri Apr 9 20:27:27 2004 From: smcbee at midtnn.net (Steve McBee) Date: Fri Apr 9 20:30:31 2004 Subject: [ASLML] OA 15 Shattering the Line In-Reply-To: <20040410021743.95812.qmail@web20728.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c41eab$c26ed1e0$b000a8c0@SteveMcBee> I would have to say no because 2nd line squads are not elite nor are they 1st line squads. I don't have the scenario in question, but if 1st line squads are created during play, then the elr of those squads would be 4. Just my guess and I'm sure someone with the scenario will chime in. Take care, Steve Keith wrote: Considering that this will have a tremendous impact on the Germans since the OOB has no 1st line units listed, was this statement intended to say the 2nd line German units have an ELR of 4 ? From daveolie at eastlink.ca Fri Apr 9 20:38:20 2004 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Fri Apr 9 21:15:05 2004 Subject: [ASLML] OA 15 Shattering the Line References: <20040410021743.95812.qmail@web20728.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007601c41eb1$1f1793a0$a64d8918@klis.com> Keith wrote: > In this scenario, SSR 3 says "All Elite and 1st line > Germans units have an ELR of 4. All other German > units have an ELR of 2." > > Considering that this will have a tremendous impact on > the Germans since the OOB has no 1st line units > listed, was this statement intended to say the 2nd > line German units have an ELR of 4 ? I don't have this scenario, but based on others with similar SSRs, I would take this to mean that German elite MMC that become 1st line due to ELR failure will still have ELR of 4 if/when they are rallied. Any MMC that starts/becomes 2nd line/Conscript will have ELR of 2. 2nd liners that BH to 1st liners will get ELR of 4. In addition, German leaders will always have ELR of 4. IOW, just because the German has no 1st liners in his initial OoB doesn't mean he might not get some later on due to the fortunes of war. David "my troops are degrading" Olie From thunderchief at ozemail.com.au Fri Apr 9 23:13:30 2004 From: thunderchief at ozemail.com.au (Adam Lunney) Date: Fri Apr 9 23:17:22 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Book Query: Galicia Division References: <01C41E48.4C3903A0.khris@clara.net> Message-ID: <00d901c41ec3$37b9dc80$d12354d2@pavilion> Chris and all, there are 3 books on the 14th SS Division - one each by Littman, Melnyk and Lugosz. I'd like to know which of them is the best since I'm happy to read any unit history and make my own mind up about it but some advance warning would help. Melnyks book is the most expensive, followed by Lugosz then Littman. Regardless of anything else I think that the fact that it's a Schiffer publication, will give a leaning in favour of the SS. But then how many Russians (citizens) and POWs (German/Polish etc) were sent away to Gulags etc and never came back? I don't see the Russians being forced to admit to atrocities etc. The Germans did it and there are museums etc where you can read about it and see what happened. The Russians didn't lose so they admit nothing. I don't think we'll see the Russians at Nuremburg. Just an observation, not a flame but I'm happy to take it private if you want. Adam. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Milne" To: Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 12:34 AM Subject: [ASLML] Book Query: Galicia Division > Hi, > > Came across this book at a shop the other day, and thought about > buying it. However, the author's synopsis made me think that it might > contain some SS apologist material (effectively, that they're just a > bunch of good old Ukranian nationalists). Has anyone read this or > other books by the author, and if so could they let me know their > opinions (on all aspects, not just how it deals with the SS factor)? > > I have found some reviews on the web, but they range from the > 'traitors to Ukraine' to 'I know the author and this book is great' > to 'these were all upstanding Ukrainians that just happened to be > fighting for the Waffen SS, but of course they hated the Nazis as > much as the Communists'. Very helpful. > > Book details: > Galicia Division: Waffen SS 14th Grenadier Division 1943-45. > Author: Michael O Logusz > Publisher: Schiffer Publishing From eaton.family at btinternet.com Sat Apr 10 00:22:17 2004 From: eaton.family at btinternet.com (Bill Eaton) Date: Sat Apr 10 00:24:38 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Gureyev's HQ References: <040520041844.8504.4071A8F8000E3BC5000021382200763704FF9A949C909C868D8D9A@comcast.net> Message-ID: writes: > > The "expert" Chaney'N'Mcgrath advice is to use both balances at the same time. > > ....Perry Thanks Perry. Tried it this way and won pretty easily as the Russians, those fortified building locations make it pretty difficult for the germans IMHO. In fact, taking the two balances together I would say that the fortification bonus for the Russians is a bigger help than the reinforcement restriction the German player receives as balance. While I can see that in some cases the German balance could severely restrict Russian reinforcements, in other cases (my game for example) it didn't make a huge difference in that I was able to get a commissar and a few squads into the HQ by turn 4, the rest following in Turn 6. In other words, you can rely on the fortifications whereas the reinforcement restrictions are luck dependent and can vary from no effect to no reinforcements. Great scenario though. I think next time I play it I will try it straight up with no balances. From phil.draper at tiscali.co.uk Sat Apr 10 01:27:49 2004 From: phil.draper at tiscali.co.uk (Phil Draper) Date: Sat Apr 10 01:27:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Test Message-ID: <004201c41ed5$b5df63c0$29bb2b50@cerberus> Test From phil.draper at tiscali.co.uk Sat Apr 10 03:02:35 2004 From: phil.draper at tiscali.co.uk (Phil Draper) Date: Sat Apr 10 03:02:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Never seen that before Message-ID: <000d01c41ee2$f2df2910$11bb2e50@cerberus> Hi guys, Had an unusual event in a game the other day and I just wanted to check we handled it right and to see if anyone else has seen something similar happen. Apologies if the sequence is a bit detailed but I'm trying to understand whether we broke it down right or not. The basic situation was a playtest of a Normandy scenario involving a clash of Armoured Recce forces. I am German and have a SPW 251/9 (the one with a NT *75mm) covering a road. My opponent has a Stuart V and for reasons not worth going into (cos they are embarrassing) he manages to manoeuvre his tank into an adjacent hex in my rear arc. Coming into LOS only as he enters this hex. We are both CE. This is where the fun starts. Sequence of events follows: Stuart enters adjacent hex in rear VCA. 1MP in LOS. Stuart stops. Stuart BFF MG for no effect. 2MP in LOS. Stuart announces 1MP delay. 3MP in LOS. Sweat appears on German SPW commanders brow. Stuart announces 1MP delay. 4 MP in LOS. SPW announces vehicular smoke grenade attempt.Fails SPW announces motion attempt. Fails SPW announces to hit attempt with HEAT (H6). Stuart declares gun duel. Gun duel drm for SPW are +4 (two CA changes NT) and for Stuart are also +4 (BFF Turreted No Gyro). Tied gun duel so lowest DR fires first. SPW fires. No HEAT. Gun duel cancelled as no shot occurred. Sweat appears in SPW commanders underpants. Out of options SPW commander announcers to hit attempt with HE hoping collateral effects Stuart CE crew. Stuart announces gun duel. Modifiers same as above. Lowest DR fires first. SPW fires. DR 2. Critical Hit in the hull with HE. Final TK No. = 8. DR 7. Stuart killed. Crew survive. Stuart commander whines. Smirking SPW commander utters immortal line "Yeah but if you roll snakes, its a simultaneous hit." Stuart fires. DR 2. Simultaneous hit. Critical hit in the hull. SPW burns. Silence descends. Tumbleweed blows past feet of Stuart crew. German player scratches head and says "I've never seen that before." Did we do this right? I (the German) should have probably fired at the 2MP in LOS point to be sure of winning the gun duel, but I missed the difference in restricted aim penalty for the attacker and defender. I've been playing this game for a very long time and this is the first time I have seen two vehicles get a simultaneous kill. Anyone else ever seen it? Cheers all. Phil "Never let an Englishman get right up behind you." Draper. From janusz.maxe at unf.se Sat Apr 10 04:07:39 2004 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Sat Apr 10 04:12:20 2004 Subject: SV: [ASLML] Never seen that before Message-ID: <5A75A637377A4249B83ACA0BC0510B5D7A0EAE@sesob03.sobernet.net> Hi, Phil, nice story. You did everything right, that I could think of. > I (the German) should have probably fired at the 2MP in LOS > point to be sure > of winning the gun duel, but I missed the difference in restricted aim > penalty for the attacker and defender. That doesn't matter, since it's a target DRM. In gun duels only firer DRMs apply. Janusz From ASL at Memmott.US Sat Apr 10 05:57:13 2004 From: ASL at Memmott.US (Larry L. Memmott) Date: Sat Apr 10 05:59:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Test References: <004201c41ed5$b5df63c0$29bb2b50@cerberus> Message-ID: <001301c41efb$5b3e4a50$ece63fc8@D5G57231> Test 2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Draper" To: Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 3:27 AM Subject: [ASLML] Test > Test > > > From ASL at Memmott.US Sat Apr 10 06:13:39 2004 From: ASL at Memmott.US (Larry L. Memmott) Date: Sat Apr 10 06:16:00 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Firelane at Night References: <004201c41ed5$b5df63c0$29bb2b50@cerberus> <001301c41efb$5b3e4a50$ece63fc8@D5G57231> Message-ID: <001c01c41efd$a6ee97f0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> Playing HS 28: Battered Remnants and an interesting, but undoubtedly not unusual, question has come up. RB1 (E1.71) states that to lay a bore-sighted firelane no attack need be made. Q&A (J1) states that a MG laying a firelane at the start of the enemy MPh need not make a DR to check for malf/cower/SAN. However, there is nothing in either to say that the initial laying of the FL need be at the beginning of the enemy MPh. If the FL is initially laid during, but not at the beginning of, the enemy MPh, must the dice be rolled? Thanks, Larry From ctewks at yahoo.com Sat Apr 10 07:34:04 2004 From: ctewks at yahoo.com (Chuck T) Date: Sat Apr 10 07:36:48 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Never seen that before In-Reply-To: <5A75A637377A4249B83ACA0BC0510B5D7A0EAE@sesob03.sobernet.net> Message-ID: Only firer mods apply to who fires first -- all modifiers apply on the actual shot. _____________ Chuck T ctewks@yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Janusz Maxe Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 7:08 AM To: Phil Draper; Aslml@asl-forums.net Subject: SV: [ASLML] Never seen that before Hi, Phil, nice story. You did everything right, that I could think of. > I (the German) should have probably fired at the 2MP in LOS > point to be sure > of winning the gun duel, but I missed the difference in restricted aim > penalty for the attacker and defender. That doesn't matter, since it's a target DRM. In gun duels only firer DRMs apply. Janusz From pzchala at hotmail.com Sat Apr 10 08:59:13 2004 From: pzchala at hotmail.com (Michael Pierzchala) Date: Sat Apr 10 09:01:38 2004 Subject: [ASLML] OA 15 Shattering the Line Message-ID: >From: Keith Todd >To: ASLML >Subject: [ASLML] OA 15 Shattering the Line >Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:17:43 -0700 (PDT) > >In this scenario, SSR 3 says "All Elite and 1st line >Germans units have an ELR of 4. All other German >units have an ELR of 2." > >Considering that this will have a tremendous impact on >the Germans since the OOB has no 1st line units >listed, was this statement intended to say the 2nd >line German units have an ELR of 4 ? No, it means just what it says. In the German OOB, the turn 4 reinforcements, three 248's are elite, and leaders are elite as well. See A1.11. Mike Pierzchala _________________________________________________________________ Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 months! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From daveolie at eastlink.ca Sat Apr 10 13:43:39 2004 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Sat Apr 10 14:06:53 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Firelane at Night References: <004201c41ed5$b5df63c0$29bb2b50@cerberus> <001301c41efb$5b3e4a50$ece63fc8@D5G57231> <001c01c41efd$a6ee97f0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> Message-ID: <012901c41f3d$762949e0$a64d8918@klis.com> Larry wrote: > Playing HS 28: Battered Remnants and an interesting, but undoubtedly not > unusual, question has come up. O.K., let's take a look. > RB1 (E1.71) states that to lay a bore-sighted firelane no attack need be > made. ASLRB#2 says the same. The DEFENDER must, however, make a DR to check for malf./cower/SAN. Kind of like taking a shot that turns out to be a blocked LOS in other situations. > Q&A (J1) states that a MG laying a firelane at the start of the enemy MPh > need not make a DR to check for malf/cower/SAN. Right, because this DR has, in effect, already been made, when the FL was originally established on a previous turn. > However, there is nothing in either to say that the initial laying of the FL > need be at the beginning of the enemy MPh. No, it can take place anytime after any starshell/IR has been fired. This could possibly be at the beginning of an enemy MPh, but need not be. So it could be at the beginning or during an enemy MPh. > If the FL is initially laid during, but not at the beginning of, the enemy > MPh, must the dice be rolled? Yes. My understanding is that whenever the FL is initially laid, the DR takes place. If cowering occurs the FL is not placed (try again next turn), due to A9.22. If malf. occurs the FL is not placed and can't be placed until the MG is repaired. In both of these cases a new DR would be required when the next attempt to place the FL is made. Once the FL is placed, the MG is effectively "locked in" to continuing to place the same FL in every subsequent enemy MPh until, at the start of such an MPh, it can see a KEU. While it is "locked in", it does not have to make any further DRs, except for actual FL attacks. David "locked but only half-loaded" Olie From domorich at sprintmail.com Wed Apr 7 14:09:58 2004 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (rich domovic) Date: Sat Apr 10 17:45:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Bypass problemo References: Message-ID: now thinking about the actual move in bypass, it happens inside a hex, along A hexside. possibly meant for LOSchecking help, and to clarify the thing ?. that I can understand easy. then all residuals, aqquisitions, smoke hindrances etc. are taken from the actual hex being bypassed. true the hexside is actually common to 2 hexes. but . Why do you measure the possibility for Bypass between the obstacle and the hexside, as following the D2.31 you're thought to be driving ramming speed along the exact hexside line. the Wreck part D10.2 is also talking about wreck in bypass is blocking vehicular entrance to A HEX, then refering to D2.31. The problem with this rule is even more obvious in cases where you have Wall between 2 bypassable hexes, like 10X6/Y7. if i get AFV or wreck in Y7 bypass location in X6/Y7 hexside, do I have to understand this so that I cannot bypass building X6 anymore as there is someone on the otherside of the wall??? mighty big mutha that must be. Cheers! Well, I have always played and seen it played that D2.31 does not allow more than one vehicle to bypass a hexside simultaneously. D10.2 also supports this as a wreck in bypass prevents another vehicle's bypass. To answer your question "why then you still need to define the actual hex if both are available for Bypass" - Street Fighting (A11.8) applies to vehicles bypassing an infantry unit's hex, the range of direct fire weapons can differ by one hex depending which hex the vehicle chooses... Rich From swami12 at comcast.com Wed Apr 7 17:07:50 2004 From: swami12 at comcast.com (David Wolfe) Date: Sat Apr 10 17:45:40 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Enfilade References: <20040407151531.91784.qmail@web41015.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001601c41cfd$8842cf80$2082a843@comcast.net> let the taunting begin in earnest!!!!! Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Airius" To: "Sam Belcher" ; "'Will Fleming'" ; Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 8:15 AM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Enfilade > Last time I checked you were 0-2 against me Sam, so I > am just going to have to come up there and kick your > a$$ again and make it 0-3(and 0-4, and 0-5, and 0-6) > just to remind you. > > What does Sam, the Puget sounders, and Tampa Bay have > in common? "They invented losing!" > > -Wes, the non-commissar BC > > > > --- Sam Belcher wrote: > > > Sam/All, > > > > > > Any info on scenarios and such? The link up at > > MMP is broken BTW. > > > > Probably broken because I typed "http:// in front of > > the website name. I've > > since re-entered it correctly, but it hasn't > > changed. > > > > At least one round will feature "Hall of Fame" > > scenarios. These are listed > > in Journal 4, I believe and are all excellent > > scenarios. > > > > > I will be very disappointed if some of the > > Portland crew > > > doesn't make it up this year. After having been > > away from > > > ASL for so long, I am looking for some easy > > 'marks'. :) > > > > The "Portland Patsy's" should show up in some > > numbers again this year. They > > just love getting beaten over, and over, and over > > again.... ;) > > > > Sam > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > From rln22 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 22:10:51 2004 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Beseler) Date: Sat Apr 10 17:46:07 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Veh. Dust and Drift Message-ID: When one has a mild breeze in a dry, desert scenario, does vehicle dust 'drift' in the AFPh in the same way as dispersed smoke would? That is, would one place two more 'dust', or 'dispersed SMOKE' counters downwind? Beseler From DomoRich at sprintmail.com Wed Apr 7 20:41:25 2004 From: DomoRich at sprintmail.com (Rich Domovic) Date: Sat Apr 10 17:46:42 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Perry, We couldn't resolve an issue with DC residual and would appreciate your guidance: A. Can a squad with DC throw the DC in Defensive First Fire as a predesignated attack versus a BU AFV in an adjacent open ground hex and if, after placement determination, the final IFT result is not a 12 malfunction, will the DC attack leave residual (12 reduced two columns for the +2 thrown DRM)? B. Can a squad throw the DC into the AFV's hex as a general attack, not able to affect the non-vulnerable PRC (or AFV) but still leave residual? C. Can a squad throw the DC into a CE AFV's hex as a general attack, able to affect the vulnerable PRC and leave residual? Thanks, Rich From helgin at hotmail.com Wed Apr 7 22:45:52 2004 From: helgin at hotmail.com (Kimmo K) Date: Sat Apr 10 17:47:25 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Bypass problemo Message-ID: > >Why do you measure the > >possibility for Bypass between the obstacle and the hexside, as following > >the D2.31 you're thought to be driving ramming speed along the exact >hexside > >line. > >Don't obsess on the "reality" behind the rule, it will get you nowhere. >Just >concentrate on what the rule is actually saying -- which is, no more than >one >vehicle/wreck along a hexside. I usually don't bother meself about them rules, how realistic they might be and such. as ASL is not too realistic in many aspects, that granted and I don't care. i know this game is what it is and I play along just fine as long as it is not this stupid thing. And even now I can finely stop driving tanks there in vast amounts at the same time. I would be just fine with this if the book said somewhere 'we desided to make the rule this way, so no one will have to remember on which actual hex the wreck/AFV is.' But thinking (yes I do and I WILL THINK) how simply purely stupid cases you get from this D2.31 case, makes me wanna cry. I cannot be too sure it was meant this way (unless for easing up the thing like said before) if you bother considering those special cases like wall between the hexes. but, I play according to The Book. No problem with that. Yet it does not have to mean that I'm believer swallowing the bible as it is written. > > >the Wreck part D10.2 is also talking about wreck in bypass is blocking > >vehicular entrance to A HEX, then refering to D2.31. The problem with >this > >rule is even more obvious in cases where you have Wall between 2 >bypassable > >hexes, like 10X6/Y7. if i get AFV or wreck in Y7 bypass location in X6/Y7 > >hexside, do I have to understand this so that I cannot bypass building X6 > >anymore as there is someone on the otherside of the wall??? mighty big >mutha > >that must be. > >Life's tough, isn't it? nope, i certainly don't agree. your's might be... >Consider the woods hex in 2S5: there's an enormous >"real" gap along the S5/S6 and S5/T6 hexsides, but that little blob of >woods >on the vertex prevents any bypass movement. In game terms, there's no way >to >exploit that obvious gap. ...it certainly is. I can see. >What are you gonna do? make a cup of coffee and plan some moves, thinking how to kill opponents troopers with these new refined rules. (new to me in case you might think something else) >It's how the game works. could you place those words any better? Cheers! _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dreenstra at comcast.com Thu Apr 8 10:36:49 2004 From: dreenstra at comcast.com (Dave Reenstra) Date: Sat Apr 10 17:48:09 2004 Subject: [ASLML] RR CG MG Pltn question In-Reply-To: <5a9970thdnkrkugor5t5vf9rf2p0i2n6t1@4ax.com> Message-ID: <000001c41d90$132b08a0$2802a8c0@mba.wfu.edu> Hello all, Bruce writes: >On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:11:46 +0200, "Michael" wrote: > >>Here comes the question ; I have depleted my German MG Pltn, so what >>happens? Do I get one of each ? > >Per Z2.5192, you will get a minimum of 2 SW with a depleted HW >group. A >full-strength group has 2 HMG and 2 MMG; you roll one die for each. > >Suppose your dr are as follows: > >HMG 1: "4" -- you receive it. >HMG 2: "5" -- you don't. >MMG 1: "6" -- you don't. >MMG 2: "5" -- you don't. Okay so far. > >However, you're guaranteed to receive 2, so you roll again for >the ones you >missed. As soon as one of them succeeds, you have your two >MGs and you stop >rolling. Which of the MGs you actually get depends on what >you rolled and in >what order you rolled for them. Hmmm, I disagree. My read on Z2.5192 is that, given the above situation, where the initial set of rolls for the SWs generate less than the minimum required, you toss out the entire *set* and make an entirely new set of rolls until you get the minimum required. So it is possible, in the scenario you described, to re-roll and get all four MGs, or get HMG 2 and MMG 1 & 2, but not HMG 1, etc. The EXC in Z2.5192 says, "At least two SW must be received with a HW RG; if the RG's final total is < 2 SW, ignore this result; roll again for each SW in the RG until a final total >= 2 are received after rolling for each". This says to me that you start over from scratch and re-roll for all the possible SW, so your second series of rolls might look like this: HMG 1: "6" -- you don't receive it. HMG 2: "5" -- you don't receive it. MMG 1: "6" -- you don't receive it. MMG 2: "1" -- you receive it. This requires another series of rolls and this continues until one series of rolls generates the minimum number of SW required. > >Of course, once you've rolled once for each MG, if you already >have 2 (or >more), you don't make any re-rolls. Right, if the original series of rolls gives you your minimum number required, no need to re-roll. > >Note that you only get as many Crews as MGs you successfully >rolled for! Also correct, by footnote b in boths RG Charts. Dave Reenstra From mikes at intrinsity.com Fri Apr 9 15:15:44 2004 From: mikes at intrinsity.com (mike seningen) Date: Sat Apr 10 17:48:53 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Is-2m References: <000c01c41e49$39a420c0$647ba8c0@samb03> <000001c41e5c$41f9c910$6401a8c0@NewDell> Message-ID: Brian W writes: > > > These "babies" are essentially hull down all the time!! You > > can't hurt them with a hull hit in the front... > > The caveat being that they are vulnerable to deliberate immobilization > when not hull down. Additionally, while being hull down is not much of > an advantage when facing a panther, a PF can still penetrate the front > hull on a DR5. > > Although it is not used often -- When you have the oppurtunity to be hull down behind a wall -- you can claim Case Q TEM in lieu of claiming HD status Statistically, there are times when that is more advantagous. Or with the stalins (and other weaker Turret armor AFVs like pathers), it maybe better to accept die rolls that would be hull hits if HD, using the +2 modifier to make turret hits miss. There are cases where survivability is increased by not choosing HD behind a wall. TH #, prob of HD Hit, prob of Any Hit prob of T Hit with +2 TEM, with +2 TEM, 2 1/36(1/216=CH) 1/72 (1/216=CH) 1/216 3 2/36 1/72 (1/216=CH) 1/216 4 3/36 1/36 0/36 5 5/36 3/36 1/36 6 7/36 6/36 2/36 7 10/36 10/36 4/36 8 12/36 15/36 6/36 9 14/36 21/36 9/36 10 15/36 26/36 11/36 11 16/36 30/36 13/36 12 16/36 33/36 14/36 So if the only way you are hurt is by a Turret hit, in all cases it is best to claim Case Q rather than HD status. Up until a Final TH # (less case Q) of a 7, regardless of armor, you are better off taking case Q. (and at 7 it is the same) Savvy tankers should keep this little chart in mind. Mike Seningen From keith.todd at comcast.net Fri Apr 9 18:55:40 2004 From: keith.todd at comcast.net (Keith Todd) Date: Sat Apr 10 17:49:30 2004 Subject: [ASLML] OA15 Shattering the line Message-ID: <000601c41e9e$ede85970$6401a8c0@MOOSE> In this scenario, SSR 3 says "All Elite and 1st line Germans units have an ELR of 4. All other German units have an ELR of 2." Considering that this will have a tremendous impact on the Germans since the OOB has no 1st line units listed, was this statement intended to say the 2nd line German units have an ELR of 4 ? Keith Todd http://home.comcast.net/~keith.todd/ From mikes at intrinsity.com Sat Apr 10 07:54:17 2004 From: mikes at intrinsity.com (mike seningen) Date: Sat Apr 10 17:49:54 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Lost Postings Message-ID: Guess this site just doesn't love me..... Hope to see some familiar faces in Chicago in couple weeks. If not then -- come join us in Austin June 24-27th http://www.angelfire.com/tx2/seningen cheers, Mike From krynndm at speakeasy.net Sat Apr 10 09:53:46 2004 From: krynndm at speakeasy.net (Tom Mueller) Date: Sat Apr 10 17:50:20 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Firelane at Night In-Reply-To: <001c01c41efd$a6ee97f0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> References: <004201c41ed5$b5df63c0$29bb2b50@cerberus> <001301c41efb$5b3e4a50$ece63fc8@D5G57231> <001c01c41efd$a6ee97f0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040410102154.01bfeea8@mail.speakeasy.net> At 08:13 AM 4/10/2004, Larry L. Memmott wrote: >Playing HS 28: Battered Remnants and an interesting, but undoubtedly not >unusual, question has come up. > >RB1 (E1.71) states that to lay a bore-sighted firelane no attack need be >made. > >Q&A (J1) states that a MG laying a firelane at the start of the enemy MPh >need not make a DR to check for malf/cower/SAN. > >However, there is nothing in either to say that the initial laying of the FL >need be at the beginning of the enemy MPh. What E1.71 (in 2nd ed.) states in the long exception is that after a starshell/IR has been fired, a FL can be placed in the boresighted hex without attacking a moving unit, and thereafter each following MPh before any Attackers move, until the firer has LOS to a KEU (heavily paraphrased!) The exception then states,"The firer must make an IFT DR to check for malfunction/cowering/SAN." So, if you play by 2nd edition rules, the Q&A you cite is incorrect - a normal IFT DR *is* required. >If the FL is initially laid during, but not at the beginning of, the enemy >MPh, must the dice be rolled? If you play by 1st edition/Q&A, I'd say yes, since the initial placement doesn't fall under the Q&A. Of course, I advise 2nd edition, even you don't have it. :] Tom Mueller Ah, DSL! And Athlon 1900+! "The music that rocked America... gently to sleep." - Tom Servo, 'Girls Town' From sgtono at yahoo.com Sat Apr 10 18:46:56 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Sat Apr 10 18:49:25 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Riders Message-ID: <20040411014656.34557.qmail@web20722.mail.yahoo.com> Riders are allowed in 1943 or after for all nationalities except for tankettes. I cannot find the definition of a tankette. Is the Type 95 HA GO a tankette? Keith __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From wrongway at nowonline.net Sat Apr 10 21:11:59 2004 From: wrongway at nowonline.net (Pete Shelling) Date: Sat Apr 10 21:14:32 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Book Query: Galicia Division In-Reply-To: <00d901c41ec3$37b9dc80$d12354d2@pavilion> Message-ID: Adam announced: "there are 3 books on the 14th SS Division - one each by Littman, Melnyk and Lugosz. I'd like to know which of them is the best since I'm happy to read any unit history and make my own mind up about it but some advance warning would help. Melnyks book is the most expensive, followed by Lugosz then Littman." There is at least one more: "Fighting for Freedom: The Ukrainian volunteer Division of the Waffen SS" by Richard Landwehr. (Bibliophile legion books 1985) "Regardless of anything else I think that the fact that it's a Schiffer publication, will give a leaning in favour of the SS. But then how many Russians (citizens) and POWs (German/Polish etc) were sent away to Gulags etc and never came back? I don't see the Russians being forced to admit to atrocities etc. The Germans did it and there are museums etc where you can read about it and see what happened. The Russians didn't lose so they admit nothing. I don't think we'll see the Russians at Nuremburg. Just an observation, not a flame but I'm happy to take it private if you want." Good point, Adam, and certainly something I wouldn't disagree with. In fact, most of what we read as history is biased one way or another, especially the personal accounts of frontline activity. In many stories by US GIs (Most of whom are NOT professional historians) the Germans are "Nazis in their Tiger tanks". Now, we know that most German AFVs were not actual Tigers, and most German (non-SS)Landsers were not likely Nazis, either. But in the mind of the writer, these are correct assumptions, or at least good enough for his purposes. Yet, this is often very good material for scenario designs- these types of accounts give us good info on battlefield conditions such as weather, the experience level and morale of the participants (at least for one side), and the terrain. These are very important elements in ASL which are not often described in the operational unit histories. For this, the Schiffer books tend to be quite good. The thing that really frustrates me with this kind of writing is that the writer rarely cares to identify the enemy units. I guess the grunts in the slit trenches really don't care if the T-34s swarming them were from the 5th Guards Tank Corps or the 6th Mechanized Corps. (Not that I blame them.) For this, we need to turn to something at the operational level from true historians such as Col. Glantz, or those guys that write the 'Pen and Sword' books. Other favorites: Doug Nash (he is picking up were Glantz leaves off in the Eastern Front) Brits Michael Reynolds and Charles Whiting are both quite good. Although the latter is not really a historian as much as a writer of history, I like the way he packages the details. He brings the front lines, operational, and political levels together quite nicely, thereby bringing a wide range of relevant information to the reader in a style well suited to an airplane ride (not so much time for hardcore, flipping-back-and-forth type research.) I am currently reading his "Hemingway at War" and am enjoying it. Alas, Whiting is a bit biased himself, as he reserves his less-glowing comments for the US Commanders when discussing combined Anglo-American operations. (Then again, I--like almost everyone else--read my own biases out of it the first time through.) I look forward to more of Rick Atkinson's stuff (after he finishes his first-person accounts and commentary of the current conflict.) Best of all time may be the Aussie Alan Morehead's "Desert War", which was actually first published in three parts during the war and shortly thereafter. Glad to see more of the 'personal account' type of stuff being translated from Russian as well. Pete "so many books, so little time" Shelling - From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Apr 11 05:58:01 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun Apr 11 06:00:40 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Is-2m In-Reply-To: <658c7d657e94.657e94658c7d@tampabay.rr.com> References: <658c7d657e94.657e94658c7d@tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 15:03:38 -0400, davehawk@tampabay.rr.com wrote: >Also, don't forget that you can always claim the +2 TEM of a wall instead of HD at your option. So a wall is always better. I believed that this was true for a long time (I thought it was one of the changes in 2nd edition), but was recently proved wrong: Although D4.2 *does* say: "A HD target ... may claim a Case Q TH DRM in lieu of HD status." -- which seems pretty explicit -- D4.21 goes on to say: "A vehicular target fired on by Direct Fire through a wall/bocage/roadblock hexside that would affect that fire with a +2 or +1 TEM ... is instead considered HD to that fire." (B9.36 also says essentially the same thing.) In other words, if you are HD because of a wall/bocage/roadblock, you don't get the choice of substituting the TEM as a Case Q DRM. If you are HD for any other reason, you do. (Personally I think this is mildly annoying, as a perfectly sound general rule -- D4.2 -- is being immediately contradicted by a sub-rule -- D4.21 -- but the sub-rule has precedence.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Apr 11 05:58:03 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun Apr 11 06:00:45 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 08:49:01 -0400, "Bruce Bakken" wrote: >>But how does it leave Residual FP when it is exerting no original IFT FP? >>It's a TK DR. TK DR only have "FP equivalency" for the sake of attacks vs. >>Personnel and Collateral Attacks (C8.31). This isn't an attack vs. >>Personnel, >>and we all seem to be in agreement that Collateral Attacks don't leave >>Residual. So where is the FP that you would base your Residual on? >This is your most compelling argument. A8.2 only says "the highest IFT >column used for that attack." Since A8.2 also says that for a To Kill DR, >"Residual FP is created in the same manner", I would take that to mean to >use whatever FP column would have been used had the target been Personnel. I would take it to mean that, too, if only there were a rule that actually said as much . (C8.31 is the closest thing to such a rule, yet it excludes itself by indicating it applies to only particular types of attacks.) A8.2 seems to be implying a principle without letting us know what the principle is . >I also found this in A8.22: "A Collateral Attack never leaves Residual FP >but the attack that causes it may." Except as found in A8.2, which excludes >AP, APDS, APCR, et al. That's not conclusive one way or the other, however. There are two types of Collateral Attacks and they can be caused in many different ways; certainly some of those ways can come from an attack that leaves Residual. It doesn't tell us that *all* those ways leave Residual . >And in A8.25: "An ordnance weapon must secure a hit in order to exert >Residual FP... Neither Intensive Fire (C5.6), AP-type ammo (see 8.2), nor >PF/PFk (C13.31) leaves Residual FP." By default, that means that any other >Vehicle Target hit using non-AP-type ammo would also leave Residual FP. Except that "ordnance weapons" can "secure a hit" without using the Vehicle Target Type. Granted, the rule is not *excluding* VTT, but it's not specifically including it, either, and IMO the question of "where is the FP that leaves the Residual?", as above, does so exclude them. However, I certainly agree that A8.2 is a major obstacle to my argument . The only thing I'm certain of right now is that I'm confused . ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Apr 11 05:58:04 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun Apr 11 06:00:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] J19 Merzenhausen Zoo question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:30:09 -0600, Jeff Barber wrote: >I'm getting ready to play this scenario Sunday and I have a question regarding SSR4. The Germans take a NTC before the "start of play". The question is: does "the start of play" mean before you the set up of the American off board forces? Technically do you set up in the rally phase (like reinforcements do - after the start of play) or before the start of play (wind-change)? "Start of play" is the first step in the ASOP, which is 1.11A: essentially, setting up reinforcements to enter that turn. So you roll the NTC before you get to that point. "I need an ASOL (Advanced Sequence Of Life) to let me know when to get out of bed. I'm pretty sure it comes before the 'empty bladder' phase, though." ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From ASL at Memmott.US Sun Apr 11 06:22:26 2004 From: ASL at Memmott.US (Larry L. Memmott) Date: Sun Apr 11 06:25:01 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASLWebDex - New & Improved References: <004201c41ed5$b5df63c0$29bb2b50@cerberus><001301c41efb$5b3e4a50$ece63fc8@D5G57231><001c01c41efd$a6ee97f0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> <012901c41f3d$762949e0$a64d8918@klis.com> Message-ID: <000f01c41fc8$0bb666c0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> Let's say you remember reading an article about panjis, but you don't remember where (check out: http://www.aslwebdex.net/aslwebdex/awin-chg.html). Or you are about to begin a new game of "CH 9: Breakthrough to Kozani", and you'd like to see what others have to say about the scenario (try: http://www.aslwebdex.net/aslwebdex/scenarios/ch09.htm). Or maybe you are finally ready to play desert, and want a headstart on the rules (at: http://www.aslwebdex.net/aslwebdex/awin-chf.html). It used to be, you could find anything ASL on the internet just by going to the ASLWebDex. Yeah, I know, the last time you connected to the WebDex all the links were broken and the pop-up adds made you crazy. Not any more. You will find the new and improved ASLWebDex at www.aslwebdex.net. The broken links are gone. So are the stupid pop-ups. There are more links than ever. And, the WebDex now aims to index not only the internet, but all ASL resources. Yeah, I know, it's not complete. What can I say, you guys are putting out more ASL material than ever these days. The WebDex will probably never be finished. That said, it is likely your best bet for finding anything ASL. Welcome back. Larry p.s. for ASL Webmasters: You may want to take a look at "All The Pages", the last link on the WebDex home page, in order to see if your site has been indexed. Please let me know if I have missed you. From rwpikul at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 11 12:04:56 2004 From: rwpikul at sympatico.ca (Rick Pikul) Date: Sun Apr 11 12:07:34 2004 Subject: [ASLML] OA15 Shattering the line In-Reply-To: <000601c41e9e$ede85970$6401a8c0@MOOSE> Message-ID: <40795E98.11827.2E13CF@localhost> On 9 Apr 2004 at 18:55, Keith Todd wrote: > In this scenario, SSR 3 says "All Elite and 1st line Germans units have > an ELR of 4. All other German units have an ELR of 2." > > Considering that this will have a tremendous impact on the Germans > since the OOB has no 1st line units listed, was this statement > intended to say the 2nd line German units have an ELR of 4 ? Probably not, it's not uncommon to use an SSR like that when working with two units, one elite and the other green. Having the increased ELR for 1st line, even though there are no 1st line units in the OB, allows the Elites to have an ELR failure without having their ELR drop to 2. -- Phoenix From zekester at starband.net Sun Apr 11 14:44:09 2004 From: zekester at starband.net (Zeke Crater) Date: Sun Apr 11 15:29:46 2004 Subject: [ASLML] I played ASL for the first time in a year... References: <407273C700000009@cpfe9.be.tisc.dk> Message-ID: <025101c42014$26c117c0$0b00a8c0@xp> > Hi everyone. Welcome back, Ole! Congratulations on your second daughter. > Due to my renewed interest, I've decided to upgrade the IIFT(M)QRDC. I don't > know if it's used much, so please tell me if you're interested in a new version, > and if so, whether you want it in A4 or letter format, and in B/W or colour. I use IIFT(M)QRDC every time I play, as do my cadre of close friends. Being a simple USAmerican I like letter format in B/W. Just one man's opinion. Zeke Crater Charlottesville, Virginia, USA Play ASL? Please register at http://www.multimanpublishing.com/internat_players.php?interest=ASL- find a new ASL opponent From janusz.maxe at unf.se Sun Apr 11 17:01:31 2004 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Sun Apr 11 17:06:48 2004 Subject: [ASLML] errors in ASLSK Message-ID: <5A75A637377A4249B83ACA0BC0510B5D3D8684@sesob03.sobernet.net> I don't like complaining. I know a lot of people who like complaining more than I do, and, err, hmm, well maybe not many, but a few. There's, eh, this guy I met once, and he, hmm, maybe not. Coming to think about it, I know no one who likes complaining more than I do, but that's beside the point here. I'd simply like to point out a few errors in the ASLSK, so that any reprint of this wonderful module can be as error free as we can make it. * rulebook: 1.2.1 Single man counter: Last sentence. The rule lists the situations when a leadership DRM can be used several times in the same phase (rally, ROF, MCs), but fails to mention PTCs. * Then, in the illustration of the counters, the text states "morale (7/8; underline ELR NA)", when rule 5.1, last sentence, states "MMC with underlined morale are not subject to ELR". BTW, I found the rule reference with the illustrations (inside of the binder) to be very useful in finding out "what does this number stand for?". The text with the arrow should point the reader to the right rule. * 1.3 Scenario card. I personally found this paragraph to be way too short. For example, it doesn't explain the meaning of the read number below some units in the OB. I know there have been players playing "The guards counterattack" with only one 6-2-8. Just my thought Can you tell I only got to page 3? Janusz Maxe F?ltkonsulent UNF, G?teborg och Bohusl?n tel: 031-14 33 60 mobil: 0733-838310 e-post: janusz@unf.se Fj?rdel?ngg. 41, 427 13 G?teborg From sidirezegh at charter.net Sun Apr 11 20:50:19 2004 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Sun Apr 11 20:59:20 2004 Subject: [ASLML] errors in ASLSK In-Reply-To: <5A75A637377A4249B83ACA0BC0510B5D3D8684@sesob03.sobernet.net> Message-ID: <000701c42041$4717ed50$9bfebe42@argent> Janusz said... > * 1.3 Scenario card. I personally found this paragraph to be way too short. For > example, it doesn't explain the meaning of the read number below some units in the > OB. I know there have been players playing "The guards counterattack" with only > one 6-2-8. I hope I get to play those guys some day :-) -Chas +++++++++++++++++ Chas Argent sidirezegh@charter.net Medford, Oregon, USA From kmonte at wideopenwest.com Sun Apr 11 21:46:56 2004 From: kmonte at wideopenwest.com (Kenn) Date: Sun Apr 11 21:49:49 2004 Subject: [ASLML] errors in ASLSK In-Reply-To: <000701c42041$4717ed50$9bfebe42@argent> Message-ID: <200404120447.i3C4l2B06316@pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com> -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Chas Argent Janusz said... > OB. I know there have been players playing "The guards counterattack" with only > one 6-2-8. Wouldn't that make the Scenario 'The Guard Counter Attack"? From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sun Apr 11 23:44:01 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sun Apr 11 23:46:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASLWebDex - New & Improved In-Reply-To: <000f01c41fc8$0bb666c0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> References: <004201c41ed5$b5df63c0$29bb2b50@cerberus><001301c41efb$5b3e4a50$ece63fc8@D5G57231><001c01c41efd$a6ee97f0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> <012901c41f3d$762949e0$a64d8918@klis.com> <000f01c41fc8$0bb666c0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:22:26 -0500, "Larry L. Memmott" wrote: >You will find the new and improved ASLWebDex at www.aslwebdex.net. Cool site, Larry! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Scientists believe 'that's amor?'." ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From weflemi at mbj.nifty.com Mon Apr 12 04:07:42 2004 From: weflemi at mbj.nifty.com (Will Fleming) Date: Mon Apr 12 04:14:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] errors in ASLSK In-Reply-To: <000701c42041$4717ed50$9bfebe42@argent> Message-ID: <000a01c4207e$638400e0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Janusz said... > * 1.3 Scenario card. I personally found this paragraph to be way too short. For > example, it doesn't explain the meaning of the read number below some units in the > OB. I know there have been players playing "The guards counterattack" with only > one 6-2-8. Chas replies: >I hope I get to play those guys some day :-) Sadly, I am one of them. I played the guard's counterattack without knowing the red numbers meant anything way back when SL was still new. The next time we played it, there were 12 6-2-8s all in the same hex since we didn't know about stacking limits either :) Those were the days.....I sure miss 'em. Will From iago at quicksilver.net.nz Mon Apr 12 05:34:33 2004 From: iago at quicksilver.net.nz (Peter Palmer) Date: Mon Apr 12 05:37:54 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASLWebDex - New & Improved In-Reply-To: <000f01c41fc8$0bb666c0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> References: <004201c41ed5$b5df63c0$29bb2b50@cerberus> <001301c41efb$5b3e4a50$ece63fc8@D5G57231> <001c01c41efd$a6ee97f0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> <012901c41f3d$762949e0$a64d8918@klis.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20040413003115.02f004d0@pop.qsi.net.nz> At 08:22 11/04/04 -0500, Larry L. Memmott wrote: >You will find the new and improved ASLWebDex at www.aslwebdex.net. Thanks for rejuvenating the Webdex, Larry. Excellent work. I didn't think anyone actually knew about my ASL pages, given how little new content I've put up there in the last five years. P-J Regards, Pete Palmer -- "Off the Maginot...Through the Ardennes...Nothing but Blitzkrieg!" From JPAPAS at ci.duluth.mn.us Mon Apr 12 06:32:34 2004 From: JPAPAS at ci.duluth.mn.us (Jeff Papas ) Date: Mon Apr 12 06:35:48 2004 Subject: [ASLML] errors in ASLSK Message-ID: Man, those 72+3 shots must have been a cast-iron bummer for the German. :) Jeff >>> "Will Fleming" 04/12/04 06:07AM >>> Sadly, I am one of them. I played the guard's counterattack without knowing the red numbers meant anything way back when SL was still new. The next time we played it, there were 12 6-2-8s all in the same hex since we didn't know about stacking limits either :) Those were the days.....I sure miss 'em. Will From gr27134 at charter.net Mon Apr 12 06:37:49 2004 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Mon Apr 12 06:52:00 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Bypass problemo Message-ID: <200404121337.i3CDbn6L031288@mxsf10.cluster1.charter.net> > From: "Kimmo K" > Date: 2004/04/08 Thu AM 12:45:52 CDT > To: bprobst@netspace.net.au, Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Bypass problemo > >Yet it does not have to mean that I'm believer swallowing >the bible as it is written. Actually...it does. Assuming it is ASL that you want to play. At some point one accepts the rules and playes by virtue of the _suspension of disbelief_. Otherwise one is in fact merely pushing around small pieces of cardboard. This is the irony of any ASL "reality argument". Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From jbarber at meic.org Mon Apr 12 07:18:33 2004 From: jbarber at meic.org (Jeff Barber) Date: Mon Apr 12 07:21:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] J19 Merzenhausen Zoo question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >"I need an ASOL (Advanced Sequence Of Life) to let me know when to get out of >bed. I'm pretty sure it comes before the 'empty bladder' phase, though." ;-) But right after "morning thunder" phase. That's my wife's favorite. -- Jeff Barber From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Mon Apr 12 09:49:18 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Mon Apr 12 09:52:04 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c420ae$194de470$647ba8c0@samb03> Hi, The rule book, both V1 and V2, states that 8-3-8's are not automatically considered Assault Engineers but need some designation to make them such. So two questions arise... 1. What is needed? Scenario B "Tractor Works" has a group of Germans that the OB labels as "Company A, Assault Engineer Battalion 50". But there is no SSR defining them as Assault Engineers. Are they? (I think yes.) 2. Is there ANYWHERE except H1.21 that states that "Assault Engineers" get +2 to their smoke exponent? There are a LOT of rules in chapter H that apply only to DYO scenarios. One could argue that the +2 smoke exponent is also only applicable to DYO where you "purchased" the units at extra cost to get the smoke, DCs and FT that come with them. Thanks. Sam "I'm playing the side without the Assault Engineers - if that changes your answer" Belcher From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Mon Apr 12 11:08:03 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Mon Apr 12 11:11:14 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Silhouette oddity Message-ID: <002b01c420b9$19becdb0$3611c80a@posh3> Found this oddity. Maybe someone on the list have an explanation. Find the entry 14 of the British Ordnance in Chapter H. It's the 3.7.in. Howitzer. It has a different reverse side sillhouette even though it does not limber. Normally, a silhouette is simply copied to the reverse side. What's up with that? Kenneth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monte, Kenn" To: "Kenneth Knudsen" Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 6:57 PM Subject: RE: Vehicles Almost done? Crap, I better do the reverse sides tonight. That is strange about the How. Throw a posting to the ASLML and see if anyone has an idea on why that is. Kenn -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Knudsen [mailto:kenneth.knudsen@mail.tele.dk] Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:54 PM To: Monte, Kenn Subject: Re: Vehicles Almost done now and I just stumpled across a funny thing. The entry 14 (3.7-in Howitzer) has a different backside sil although it does not limber. Don't u think thats a little odd? Kenneth From KKenneally at anteon.com Mon Apr 12 11:08:35 2004 From: KKenneally at anteon.com (Kenneally, Kevin) Date: Mon Apr 12 11:11:33 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's Message-ID: <517704396F1FDE49B87BB688462024500C246D@orl-exchange2.anteon.com> Sam, See my answers inbedded within the message: Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's Hi, >>Hi to you too.... The rule book, both V1 and V2, states that 8-3-8's are not automatically considered Assault Engineers but need some designation to make them such. >>I am in agreement here. So two questions arise... 1. What is needed? Scenario B "Tractor Works" has a group of Germans that the OB labels as "Company A, Assault Engineer Battalion 50". But there is no SSR defining them as Assault Engineers. Are they? (I think yes.) >>Yes, these are "Assault Engineers"... As far as I have played. 2. Is there ANYWHERE except H1.21 that states that "Assault Engineers" get +2 to their smoke exponent? >>NRBH, but believe H1.21 is the only source to use. There are a LOT of rules in chapter H that apply only to DYO scenarios. One could argue that the +2 smoke exponent is also only applicable to DYO where you "purchased" the units at extra cost to get the smoke, DCs and FT that come with them. >> I am in agreement with the "one could argue comment". But still feel the 8-3-8 gets the "Assault Engineer" designation for that scenario and Scenario C as well. But then again, I have played these many-a-times, and have about a 50-50 won-loss record win either side. But sure do hate those flame throwers that ALWAYS break on the 1st DR. Thanks. Sam "I'm playing the side without the Assault Engineers - if that changes your answer" Belcher Sam, I believe you have a good cjance of "Smokin' 'em".... Kevin"Just wish my FT's would work once in a while" From gr27134 at charter.net Mon Apr 12 11:02:26 2004 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Mon Apr 12 11:21:32 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's Message-ID: <200404121802.i3CI2osW057849@mxsf14.cluster1.charter.net> > > From: "Sam Belcher" > Date: 2004/04/12 Mon AM 11:49:18 CDT > To: > CC: "'Eric Henyey'" > Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's > > Hi, > > The rule book, both V1 and V2, states that 8-3-8's are not automatically > considered Assault Engineers but need some designation to make them such. > > So two questions arise... > > 1. What is needed? Scenario B "Tractor Works" has a group of Germans that > the OB labels as "Company A, Assault Engineer Battalion 50". But there is no > SSR defining them as Assault Engineers. Are they? (I think yes.) > Actually...No! There must be an SSR stating explicitly that the units in question are AE's. Otherwise, they are not. The OB formation designation is not, per rule, enough. Any SSR for AE's should also reference the H1.2 rule. > 2. Is there ANYWHERE except H1.21 that states that "Assault Engineers" get > +2 to their smoke exponent? There are a LOT of rules in chapter H that apply > only to DYO scenarios. One could argue that the +2 smoke exponent is also > only applicable to DYO where you "purchased" the units at extra cost to get > the smoke, DCs and FT that come with them. > I don't recall seeing an SSR for AE's that did not reference the "H1.21" rules in some fashion. Any SSR for AE's that doesn't reference "H1.2" _should_. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From keithdalton at verizon.net Mon Apr 12 11:29:16 2004 From: keithdalton at verizon.net (keithdalton@verizon.net) Date: Mon Apr 12 11:32:14 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's Message-ID: <20040412182916.YOJM9273.out002.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Hi Sam: In answer to 1., there is no SSR but I have always played it as such, no matter what side I took. In answer to 2, yes, if designated assualt engineers the smoke exponent is raised by 2, but I NRBH so I cannot quote the specifics. Keith "HUMAN WAVE!" Dalton > > From: "Sam Belcher" > Date: 2004/04/12 Mon AM 11:49:18 CDT > To: > CC: 'Eric Henyey' > Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's > > Hi, > > The rule book, both V1 and V2, states that 8-3-8's are not automatically > considered Assault Engineers but need some designation to make them such. > > So two questions arise... > > 1. What is needed? Scenario B "Tractor Works" has a group of Germans that > the OB labels as "Company A, Assault Engineer Battalion 50". But there is no > SSR defining them as Assault Engineers. Are they? (I think yes.) > > 2. Is there ANYWHERE except H1.21 that states that "Assault Engineers" get > +2 to their smoke exponent? There are a LOT of rules in chapter H that apply > only to DYO scenarios. One could argue that the +2 smoke exponent is also > only applicable to DYO where you "purchased" the units at extra cost to get > the smoke, DCs and FT that come with them. > > Thanks. > > Sam "I'm playing the side without the Assault Engineers - if that changes > your answer" Belcher > > > > From afantozzi at tiscali.it Mon Apr 12 11:30:21 2004 From: afantozzi at tiscali.it (Andrea) Date: Mon Apr 12 11:47:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] SASL Mission 9 (Enemy Offensive) Message-ID: <001401c420bc$87e24530$9e250a3e@andrea> Played this Mission three or four times and I think it is too difficult for the Attacker to obtain anything unless the system is able to achive some very lucky DR. The Mission is too short and the ENEMY enters little by little. In addition, if played with Mud/Snow weather the ENEMY is not going anywhere due to increased MF/MP costs. Has anybody experienced this? Suggestions? Andrea Fantozzi from Italy From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Mon Apr 12 12:48:33 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Mon Apr 12 12:51:27 2004 Subject: [ASLML] 8-3-8's - And another thing... In-Reply-To: <20040412182916.YOJM9273.out002.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: <000301c420c7$25e1c3f0$647ba8c0@samb03> Scenario B as republish in ASL Classic - the VC are as follows: "At game end, the player with undisputed control of at least six hexes of building 1X3 wins. A hex containing a Melee is controlled by neither player. If only one player has an unbroken unit in the building at game end, that player is the winner. Any other result is a draw." OK, they made a small effort to make the VC clear with the comments about Melee. But what does "undisputed control" mean? (BTW, the building is a factory, and rooftops are not in play, so there is only one location per hex.) Example 1. I control the building hex and an enemy unit breaks and routs into the hex. The game ends. Do I have "undisputed control" of the hex or not? Example 2. I control the building hex and an enemy SMC moves / advances into the hex. The game ends. Do I have "undisputed control" of the hex? Example 3. I control the hex, then a melee occurs in the hex so neither of us control the hex. On the last turn, the melee ends and everyone is killed - the hex is empty. Do I now have "undisputed control"? (Probably not). Hey, you guys re-published this in the ASL Classic. When you republish a scenario, how about DEFINING YOUR FREAKING TERMS!!!???? From pyoung at cwhealth.net Mon Apr 12 13:26:18 2004 From: pyoung at cwhealth.net (Peter Young) Date: Mon Apr 12 13:11:44 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's References: <000701c420ae$194de470$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <000901c420cc$69e44000$1543030a@Young> I would normally say it only applies if a SSR specifically designates them as being Assault Engineers, and the same would be true with the other special characteristics in Chapter H (same as with being "Commandoes"). However... I guess it depends on whether the OB designation (and historical summary) on the scenario card carries any weight in how the scenario is played. Interestingly, A25.11 makes specific reference to this, saying "Any weapon/AFV identified in a scenario Order of Battle as belonging to a SS formation..." This implies that how the unit is identified (as in your Scenario B example) does in fact affect that unit's characteristics, in which case those Scenario B Germans would be Assault Engineers. Wasn't there a similar discussion about SS troops recently? Short answer, I don't know. :-) Peter Young Yakima, WA http://firstfire.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ----- Hi, The rule book, both V1 and V2, states that 8-3-8's are not automatically considered Assault Engineers but need some designation to make them such. So two questions arise... 1. What is needed? Scenario B "Tractor Works" has a group of Germans that the OB labels as "Company A, Assault Engineer Battalion 50". But there is no SSR defining them as Assault Engineers. Are they? (I think yes.) 2. Is there ANYWHERE except H1.21 that states that "Assault Engineers" get +2 to their smoke exponent? There are a LOT of rules in chapter H that apply only to DYO scenarios. One could argue that the +2 smoke exponent is also only applicable to DYO where you "purchased" the units at extra cost to get the smoke, DCs and FT that come with them. Thanks. Sam "I'm playing the side without the Assault Engineers - if that changes your answer" Belcher From smcbee at midtnn.net Mon Apr 12 13:38:50 2004 From: smcbee at midtnn.net (Steve McBee) Date: Mon Apr 12 13:42:14 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's In-Reply-To: <000701c420ae$194de470$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <000101c420ce$2c69cea0$b000a8c0@SteveMcBee> Hi Sam, 1. No, unless there is an SSR stating the 8-3-8's are assault engineers, then they are not. 2. Yes, the index under Assault Engineers, but the controlling rule is H1.22. One could argue that everything listed under Chapter H does not apply unless SSR'd into action. Which is probably the way to play the scenario. Remember, the Tractor works as originally written did not have rules designating 8-3-8's as assault engineers because that is how they were described in the original SL rulebook. You could make a HR that said the 8-3-8's are AE's (in fact, every RB scenario with 8-3-8's does not have this SSR either; well there may be one). Looks like someone needs to ask Perry for a ruling on each scenario with 8-3-8's and see what he says. Hope that helps. Take care, Steve Sam asked: 1. What is needed? Scenario B "Tractor Works" has a group of Germans that the OB labels as "Company A, Assault Engineer Battalion 50". But there is no SSR defining them as Assault Engineers. Are they? (I think yes.) 2. Is there ANYWHERE except H1.21 that states that "Assault Engineers" get +2 to their smoke exponent? There are a LOT of rules in chapter H that apply only to DYO scenarios. One could argue that the +2 smoke exponent is also only applicable to DYO where you "purchased" the units at extra cost to get the smoke, DCs and FT that come with them. From weflemi at mbj.nifty.com Mon Apr 12 15:25:47 2004 From: weflemi at mbj.nifty.com (Will Fleming) Date: Mon Apr 12 15:28:44 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Squad Reduction with BF Message-ID: <000501c420dd$1aacf3e0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> All, A somewhat interesting situation came up with a squad who had a mortar. The squad shot his inherent FP in DFF. No cowering, so he can still shoot the mortar later---but, the squad got hit by bounding fire and suffered a K/ result, but made the morale check unpinned. So there is a half-squad with a first fire counter possessing an unfired lt MTR. Can the HS still shoot the Mortar? The rules say that a HS/crew shooting a SW loses its inherent FP for the remainder of that phase with some exceptions for DFF and such, but it doesn't mention this case specifically--a squad shooting inherent can still fire the MTR. It doesn't say that it loses this ability when it is reduced. It doesn't specifically allow it nor deny it--at least as far as we could find. Since the unit had the ability to fire the weapon before the K/ result and there is nothing saying that the new HS can't fire it, there is an argument that it can. We played it that the HS could not shoot the mortar, but I wanted to make sure by asking the list. Will From daveolie at eastlink.ca Mon Apr 12 17:36:59 2004 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Mon Apr 12 18:06:48 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Silhouette oddity References: <002b01c420b9$19becdb0$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <001901c420f1$78a4f420$a64d8918@klis.com> Kenneth wrote: > Find the entry 14 of the British Ordnance in Chapter H. It's the 3.7.in. Howitzer. > It has a different reverse side sillhouette even though it does not limber. Normally, a silhouette is simply copied to the reverse > side. > What's up with that? Artistic license? Conspiracy? Head games? Take your pick. You're right that normally QSU ordnance that have split trails don't show the trails closed on the flip side. My guess would be that this one happened to slip by. I honestly never noticed this convention before. But I've always taken the info printed on the counters and in the Vehicle/Ordnance notes to be definitive. In any case, I'm quite sure you have a QSU gun here. From what I know of this weapon historically it should be. David "they never invite me to the conventions" Olie From krynndm at speakeasy.net Sun Apr 11 07:31:17 2004 From: krynndm at speakeasy.net (Tom Mueller) Date: Mon Apr 12 19:57:43 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Hulldown in VBM? In-Reply-To: <000001c419e6$a9ae4740$647ba8c0@samb03> References: <000001c419e6$a9ae4740$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040411090210.01b34988@mail.speakeasy.net> At 08:46 PM 4/3/2004, Sam Belcher wrote: >Lets take a specific hex. Look at 3T3. Assume an AFV in T3 in bypass along >the T3/S3 hexside. (There is a wall on the T2/T3 hexside.) > >The tank would be hull down to fire coming from U2. The fire crosses the >wall hexside that the tank is claiming Wall Advantage on... >But the tank in 3T3 would not be hull down to fire from S1 or T1. Even >though the LOS is traced to the vertex at S3/T3/T2 the fire is coming from >"outside" the wall - i.e. not across the T2/T3 wall. ** I have to disagree there, Sam. It looks to me [consulting the VASL map with the tank straddling S3/T3] that the wall T2/T3 applies to fire from S2 all the way to W3; I think HD would apply also vs fire from V3 and U3, but not U4 (per B9.36 EX). Fire from S1 and T1 pass through T2, and the wall is part of T2, so your above statement is incorrect. If the tank were facing the other way, and so at S3/S4/T3 vertex, then S1 and T1 would not cross the T2 wall hexside, while in this case U1 and U2 would still treat the tank as HD. {in all cases, assuming LOS not otherwise blocked!] Tom Mueller Ah, DSL! And Athlon 1900+! "Drink it all, sometimes the poison's on the bottom." - Crow T. Robot, 'Cave Dwellers' From neil at pegacat.com Sun Apr 11 03:39:38 2004 From: neil at pegacat.com (Neil Andrews) Date: Mon Apr 12 19:57:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ANZACcon 2004 Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040411203209.00a99050@popa.melbpc.org.au> G'day from the Land Downunder Its two weeks now till ANZACcon 2004 kicks off in Old Melbourne town (that's Melbourne Victoria Australia - Not the one in Florida). So here is a bunch of details for those of you who may have missed it before. A further request is could those that are planning on coming on down to the tournament, could you all please confirm with me so we sort of have some vague sort of idea of how many are actually planning on turning up. Or as it is suspected at the moment I will be there on my own :-) And further if you are planning to turn up on the non-tournament Friday night get together Hope to see you all there >ANZACON 2004 >ASL TOURNAMENT >SATURDAY - SUNDAY >- APRIL 24 & 25 - >(gaming also available Friday night, 23 April) > >Details: >The annual Melbourne ASL tournament, ANZACON is to be played over two days >in late April. Two games are to be played each day. The times are: > Saturday 9am-6pm > Sunday 9am-5pm >Cost is $20 > >Other activities: >Friday night - > The venue is to be available on the Friday night for any > form of gaming. The times are 7.30pm until late. >Saturday night - > The tournament dinner is an optional, but highly > recommended activity. It will kick off at 8pm at a restaurant near the venue. > >Venue: >Ashburton library, High St, Ashburton > >Contact: >Please contact the following people and discuss which days you can attend. >Andrew Rogers - (03) 8661-5789 >Neil Andrews - (03) 9801-1412 Stay Safe Yours ============================ Neil Andrews Boronia, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia neil@pegacat.com ============================ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Apr 13 02:23:57 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Apr 13 02:27:07 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's In-Reply-To: <000701c420ae$194de470$647ba8c0@samb03> References: <000701c420ae$194de470$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <7qan709qi2ihjrna48tqcof7kmpasm356p@4ax.com> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:49:18 -0700, "Sam Belcher" wrote: >The rule book, both V1 and V2, states that 8-3-8's are not automatically >considered Assault Engineers but need some designation to make them such. > >So two questions arise... > >1. What is needed? Scenario B "Tractor Works" has a group of Germans that >the OB labels as "Company A, Assault Engineer Battalion 50". But there is no >SSR defining them as Assault Engineers. Are they? (I think yes.) No. "Assault Engineer", in game terms, is a modifier (defined in H1.22) that can be applied (potentially) to any Elite squad. It has a different "game" meaning than the OB designation of "Assault Engineer" (which merely defines how the owning side intended those units to be committed in actual combat). No unit type has those abilities "automatically", hence you need an SSR of some sort. OB means nothing in this case -- just as an OB-defined paratroop unit doesn't automatically invoke the paradrop rules. >2. Is there ANYWHERE except H1.21 that states that "Assault Engineers" get >+2 to their smoke exponent? There are a LOT of rules in chapter H that apply >only to DYO scenarios. One could argue that the +2 smoke exponent is also >only applicable to DYO where you "purchased" the units at extra cost to get >the smoke, DCs and FT that come with them. You mean H1.22. No, that's where the rules for Assault Engineers are defined -- which is *why* you need an SSR invoking H1.22 for those rules to be applicable in a non-DYO scenario (see above). (Similarly, Sappers are only in play when H1.23 is specifically invoked.) For an example of a scenario with such an SSR, see G11 "Pegasus Bridge". Note also that several of the "Streets Of Fire" scenarios define certain units as being "Assault Engineers" for CCV purposes only -- i.e., so they get the favourable DRM (but don't get extra SMOKE). Compare also the 8-3-8s that are Assault Engineers by CG SSR in the RB CGs (German RG Chart, footnote e) but are ordinary 8-3-8s in, say, RB5 "The Last Bid" (because CG SSRs don't apply to normal scenarios). There are no Assault Engineers (in game terms) in Scenario B. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Apr 13 02:30:21 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Apr 13 02:33:36 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Squad Reduction with BF In-Reply-To: <000501c420dd$1aacf3e0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> References: <000501c420dd$1aacf3e0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:25:47 +0900, "Will Fleming" wrote: >So there is a half-squad with a first fire counter possessing an unfired lt >MTR. > >Can the HS still shoot the Mortar? Didn't we just go through all this a few months ago? The answer is NO. The HS has first-fired, so it's SOL. Serves it right for getting reduced to a HS. No free breaks in this man's army. >It doesn't >say that it loses this ability when it is reduced. Sure it does. A7.352 says so, pretty explicitly. Is it a HS? Yes. Has it First Fired? Yes. That's all there is to it. (The HS has no memory of what it *used* to be. Only players are plagued by memory.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Tue Apr 13 02:36:28 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Tue Apr 13 02:39:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Silhouette oddity In-Reply-To: <001901c420f1$78a4f420$a64d8918@klis.com> References: <002b01c420b9$19becdb0$3611c80a@posh3> <001901c420f1$78a4f420$a64d8918@klis.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:36:59 -0300, David Olie wrote: >You're right that normally QSU ordnance that have split trails don't show >the trails closed on the flip side. My guess would be that this one >happened to slip by. Clearly, the crews of the OQF 3.7" Howitzer were trained to close the legs when the weapon jammed or ran out of ammunition, as a matter of propriety. Only heathen savages and the dirty Hun left their legs wide open when unable to defend themselves. "They probably wore kilts, and were keenly aware of the implications." ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From pingman39154 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 13 03:42:31 2004 From: pingman39154 at yahoo.com (barry cooper) Date: Tue Apr 13 03:45:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q Message-ID: <20040413104231.4401.qmail@web14522.mail.yahoo.com> Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? BarryCooper ===== Barry Cooper Steiner! "Let me show you where the Iron Crosses grow." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From pzchala at hotmail.com Tue Apr 13 04:44:48 2004 From: pzchala at hotmail.com (Michael Pierzchala) Date: Tue Apr 13 04:47:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Assault Engineers - 8-3-8's Message-ID: All rules references are from V2. >The rule book, both V1 and V2, states that 8-3-8's are not automatically >considered Assault Engineers but need some designation to make them such. Right, A25.12 >So two questions arise... > >1. What is needed? Scenario B "Tractor Works" has a group of Germans that >the OB labels as "Company A, Assault Engineer Battalion 50". But there is >no >SSR defining them as Assault Engineers. Are they? (I think yes.) I think not. The scenario is not DYO, so they certainly weren't purchased as such, and there is no SSR saying they are. >2. Is there ANYWHERE except H1.21 that states that "Assault Engineers" get >+2 to their smoke exponent? There are a LOT of rules in chapter H that >apply >only to DYO scenarios. One could argue that the +2 smoke exponent is also >only applicable to DYO where you "purchased" the units at extra cost to get >the smoke, DCs and FT that come with them. Consider, too, that the scenario is an original SL creation, back when ASL and chapter H didn't exsist. >Thanks. > >Sam "I'm playing the side without the Assault Engineers - if that changes >your answer" Belcher Yeah, me too, as part of "The Streets of Stalingrad". (Hi Borjn!) Loads of fun! The assault engineers that attacked my factory, didn't need any extra +2 smoke to gain control by the end of turn 4. The good guys are aggresivley pressing the attack, but heavy casualties are beginning to make any result but a draw, unlikely. Mike Pierzchala _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From weflemi at mbj.nifty.com Tue Apr 13 05:00:38 2004 From: weflemi at mbj.nifty.com (Will Fleming) Date: Tue Apr 13 05:03:38 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Squad Reduction with BF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c4214e$ef903e70$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Bruce, I agree and we both played it that way, but the rules are vague. It favored me and I didn't push the issue. I just think the rules could be better. A7.352 is N/A to this situation because the Squad nor HS never fired the SW. A7.352 only deals with a unit that fires the SW first, which didn't happen. A7.352 says nothing about a unit that first fired his inherent and then wishes to use a SW. Will -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Probst [mailto:bprobst@netspace.net.au] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 6:30 PM To: Will Fleming; Aslml@asl-forums.net Subject: Re: [ASLML] Squad Reduction with BF On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:25:47 +0900, "Will Fleming" wrote: >So there is a half-squad with a first fire counter possessing an unfired lt >MTR. > >Can the HS still shoot the Mortar? Didn't we just go through all this a few months ago? The answer is NO. The HS has first-fired, so it's SOL. Serves it right for getting reduced to a HS. No free breaks in this man's army. >It doesn't >say that it loses this ability when it is reduced. Sure it does. A7.352 says so, pretty explicitly. Is it a HS? Yes. Has it First Fired? Yes. That's all there is to it. (The HS has no memory of what it *used* to be. Only players are plagued by memory.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From styson at fchoice.com Tue Apr 13 05:41:08 2004 From: styson at fchoice.com (Sam Tyson) Date: Tue Apr 13 05:47:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q Message-ID: No, unless your modifiers are +9 or more, but why would you do that. It should be a hull hit in most cases, which will leave the target immobilized. Sam -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of barry cooper Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 5:43 AM To: Aslml@asl-forums.net Subject: [ASLML] DI Q Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? BarryCooper ===== Barry Cooper Steiner! "Let me show you where the Iron Crosses grow." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From smcbee at midtnn.net Tue Apr 13 06:31:03 2004 From: smcbee at midtnn.net (Steve McBee) Date: Tue Apr 13 06:41:08 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <20040413104231.4401.qmail@web14522.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201c4215b$95685600$b000a8c0@SteveMcBee> I would say no, based upon the statement in C5.72 "A Deliberate Immobilization hit is not resolved on a To Kill Table - even if it otherwise would be considered a CH;..." The only way CH can be obtained vs. a vehicle is rolling a 2. Take care, Steve Barry asked: Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Tue Apr 13 07:48:01 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Tue Apr 13 06:51:02 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Squad Reduction with BF In-Reply-To: <000d01c4214e$ef903e70$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Message-ID: <000001c42166$525d8d20$6401a8c0@NewDell> >A7.352 is N/A to this situation because the Squad nor HS >never fired the SW. A7.352 only deals with a unit that fires >the SW first, which didn't happen. A7.352 says nothing about >a unit that first fired his inherent and then wishes to use a SW. There was a similar discussion about PF usage that generated this unofficial Q&A: A7.35 & C13.8 Assume a German Squad has not fired its inherent Firepower and it fires a PF and takes the Backblast attack. Assume the squad is casualty reduced and the HS passes it MC (so it remains in good order). Can the HS fire attempt to fire a second SW? (e.g. a second PF). A. No, the HS is considered to have fired, and is so marked. [Letter79] From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Tue Apr 13 09:11:16 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Tue Apr 13 09:14:36 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <20040413104231.4401.qmail@web14522.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000f01c42171$f3869100$647ba8c0@samb03> > Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? Yep. Sick, isn't it? From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Tue Apr 13 11:45:49 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Tue Apr 13 10:48:54 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <000f01c42171$f3869100$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <000001c42187$8a3c0f70$6401a8c0@NewDell> >>Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? > >Yep. Sick, isn't it? Who would try DI if a DR2 would be a miss? From airius at yahoo.com Tue Apr 13 10:49:26 2004 From: airius at yahoo.com (Airius) Date: Tue Apr 13 10:52:34 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <000f01c42171$f3869100$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <20040413174926.31039.qmail@web41006.mail.yahoo.com> Yeah, if I had to submit a change for ASL v3 if such a beast ever came to light it would be that on snake-eyes the roller in question gets to choose a hull or turret hit... -Wes --- Sam Belcher wrote: > > Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? > > Yep. Sick, isn't it? > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From gr27134 at charter.net Tue Apr 13 10:46:15 2004 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Tue Apr 13 11:02:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q Message-ID: <200404131746.i3DHkF5p072340@mxsf30.cluster1.charter.net> > From: "Sam Belcher" > Date: 2004/04/13 Tue AM 11:11:16 CDT > To: "'barry cooper'" , > Subject: RE: [ASLML] DI Q > > > Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? > > Yep. Sick, isn't it? Uhm...I believe a none-CH snakes would be a hull hit? Snakes is a turrect hit only if it would be a CH and only if the AFV is hull down. Otherwise it is a hull hit. Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) From ethan.strauss at promega.com Tue Apr 13 09:58:59 2004 From: ethan.strauss at promega.com (Ethan Strauss) Date: Tue Apr 13 12:00:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Overlay Hi4? Message-ID: <84A048E51A0101448AF43BF3DDAB716807F53C5C@madmsg001.promega.com> Hi, Does anyone know what a "Hi" overlay is? I am trying to look at some scenarios for the ASL open and Hi4 overlay is used in at least 2 of them ( FE21 TIGER OF VITEBSK, and Sp91, Show a little Guts). I have looked through all my overlays and I don't have any "Hi", and I looked at http://ankif.free.fr/asl/overlays.html and found no listing for Hi. I assume they came with something I don't own. If anyone has an image or even just a short description, I would appreciate it. Thanks! Ethan From klas_malmstrom at yahoo.se Tue Apr 13 06:25:59 2004 From: klas_malmstrom at yahoo.se (=?iso-8859-1?q?Klas=20Malmstr=F6m?=) Date: Tue Apr 13 12:01:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Ordnance vs. empty hexes/concealed units questions Message-ID: <20040413132559.22428.qmail@web9908.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, A couple of questions: Assume I have a Mortar and want to try and rubble a building in which there are no Known units. The bulding is 6 hexes away and there are no To Hit DRM, so Basic To Hit number is 7 on the ATT. Now do I have to add Case K (+2) to this attack to see if I hit the building ?, i.e. I need 5 or less to score a hit and roll the effects DR, or do I hit the building on a 7 or less ? And alos, assume that there is a concealed enemy unit in said building. Now I clearly need a 5 or less to hit that unit, but do I get roll against for fire/rubble vs. the building als o on a DR of 6 or 7 (i.e. I hit the buildning but not the unit therin) ? Regards, Klas Malmstrom ===== ------------------------------------------------------- Klas Malmstrom Linkoping, Sweden Email: klas_malmstrom@yahoo.se ------------------------------------------------------- H?strusk och gr? moln - k?p en resa till solen p? Yahoo! Resor p? adressen http://se.docs.yahoo.com/travel/index.html From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Tue Apr 13 14:20:31 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Tue Apr 13 14:23:58 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q References: <20040413104231.4401.qmail@web14522.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002701c4219d$26fa0c80$3611c80a@posh3> Rolling 1,1 is always a Hull Hit and therefore could very well result in a DI hit. It can be a miss though if it's an impropable hit and the subsequent dr results in a 2. Kenneth ----- Original Message ----- From: "barry cooper" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:42 PM Subject: [ASLML] DI Q | Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? | | BarryCooper | | ===== | Barry Cooper | Steiner! "Let me show you where the Iron Crosses grow." | | | | | __________________________________ | Do you Yahoo!? | Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway | http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ | From airius at yahoo.com Tue Apr 13 15:23:02 2004 From: airius at yahoo.com (Airius) Date: Tue Apr 13 15:26:13 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <002701c4219d$26fa0c80$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <20040413222302.79036.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> I thought 1,1 was always a turret hit and was the one exception to the colored die < non colored die for target location determination... (all other doubles that would be hits are hull hits, 2,2 3,3 4,4 5,5 and if 6,6 hits you have one hell of an aim and one hell of a reliable gun :)... -Wes "I need a B13 the way I shoot sometimes" Wagner --- Kenneth Knudsen wrote: > Rolling 1,1 is always a Hull Hit and therefore could > very well result in a DI hit. > It can be a miss though if it's an impropable hit > and the subsequent dr results in a 2. > > Kenneth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "barry cooper" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:42 PM > Subject: [ASLML] DI Q > > > | Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? > | > | BarryCooper > | > | ===== > | Barry Cooper > | Steiner! "Let me show you where the Iron Crosses > grow." > | > | > | > | > | __________________________________ > | Do you Yahoo!? > | Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > | http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > | > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From pzchala at hotmail.com Tue Apr 13 16:14:03 2004 From: pzchala at hotmail.com (Michael Pierzchala) Date: Tue Apr 13 16:17:16 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q Message-ID: >From: barry cooper >To: Aslml@asl-forums.net >Subject: [ASLML] DI Q >Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 03:42:31 -0700 (PDT) > >Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? > >BarryCooper Depends on the Gun, range, and TH DRM's. If it's not possible to hit the target with a "2" DR, then you'd have to make a subsequent dr for a Improbable Hit. For a DI shot, the subsequent dr would have to be a "3" to hit the hull. C3.6, 3.7 Mike Pierzchala _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp From swfancher at mindspring.com Tue Apr 13 16:59:39 2004 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Tue Apr 13 17:03:03 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <002701c4219d$26fa0c80$3611c80a@posh3> References: <20040413104231.4401.qmail@web14522.mail.yahoo.com> <002701c4219d$26fa0c80$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040413195122.01e523d0@mindspring.com> Critical hits cannot occur on a DI shot (C3.7). DI cannot be attempted if the vehicle is HD (C5.71) A CH vs a HD target is always considered a Turret hit (C3.9). But we know this target is not HD, otherwise DI would not be allowed. So, the shot is a normal Hull Hit and if otherwise a hit (after applying all DRM) the AFV would be Immobilized. At 05:20 PM 4/13/2004, Kenneth Knudsen wrote: >Rolling 1,1 is always a Hull Hit A DR=1,1 if it is a Critical Hit against a HD target is always resolved against the turret (C3.9) >and therefore could very well result in a DI hit. >It can be a miss though if it's an impropable hit and the subsequent dr >results in a 2. I disagree. For improbable hits, the subsequent dr determines if the hit is a CH (which is NA for a DI attempt) or a turret hit which will also not result in DI. If the DR=1,1 results in a hit, the vehicle is Immobilized. Period. If it is a miss/Improbable hit, it will miss. >Kenneth > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "barry cooper" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:42 PM >Subject: [ASLML] DI Q > > >| Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? >| >| BarryCooper >| >| ===== >| Barry Cooper >| Steiner! "Let me show you where the Iron Crosses grow." >| >| >| >| >| __________________________________ >| Do you Yahoo!? >| Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway >| http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ >| From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Tue Apr 13 17:35:47 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Tue Apr 13 17:39:00 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <20040413222302.79036.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c421b8$6e4c26c0$647ba8c0@samb03> Wes, The General rule is that it's a turret hit if the colored die is LESS THAN the white die, so a 1,1 is usually a hull hit. The _exception_ is that a critical hit vs a hull-down target is a turret hit. So a 1,1 on deliberate Immobilization will be a hull hit - because if he was hull down to the shot you couldn't have attempted DI anyway. Sam "Yes, I was wrong before" Belcher > -----Original Message----- > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Airius > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:23 PM > To: Kenneth Knudsen; Aslml@asl-forums.net; barry cooper > Subject: Re: [ASLML] DI Q > > > I thought 1,1 was always a turret hit and was the one > exception to the colored die < non colored die for > target location determination... (all other doubles > that would be hits are hull hits, 2,2 3,3 4,4 5,5 and > if 6,6 hits you have one hell of an aim and one hell > of a reliable gun :)... > > -Wes "I need a B13 the way I shoot sometimes" Wagner > > --- Kenneth Knudsen > wrote: > > Rolling 1,1 is always a Hull Hit and therefore could > > very well result in a DI hit. > > It can be a miss though if it's an impropable hit > > and the subsequent dr results in a 2. > > > > Kenneth > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "barry cooper" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:42 PM > > Subject: [ASLML] DI Q > > > > > > | Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? > > | > > | BarryCooper > > | > > | ===== > > | Barry Cooper > > | Steiner! "Let me show you where the Iron Crosses > > grow." > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | __________________________________ > > | Do you Yahoo!? > > | Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > > | http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > | > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > From daveolie at eastlink.ca Tue Apr 13 20:18:59 2004 From: daveolie at eastlink.ca (David Olie) Date: Tue Apr 13 20:32:28 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Overlay Hi4? References: <84A048E51A0101448AF43BF3DDAB716807F53C5C@madmsg001.promega.com> Message-ID: <00d101c421cf$c1baacc0$a64d8918@klis.com> Ethan wrote: > Does anyone know what a "Hi" overlay is? "Hi" overlays are hills. > I am trying to look at some scenarios for the ASL open and Hi4 overlay is used in at least >2 of them ( FE21 TIGER OF VITEBSK, and Sp91, Show a little Guts). I have looked >through all my overlays and I don't have any "Hi", and I looked at >http://ankif.free.fr/asl/overlays.html and found no listing for Hi. I assume they came with >something I don't own. If anyone has an image or even just a short description, I would >appreciate it. I can't remember where these overlays came from either (although I suspect it was CdG). Hi4 is a four-hex Level 1 hill mass, as you might guess. Don't know how better to describe it. David "don't know this; don't know that" Olie From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Tue Apr 13 23:07:53 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Tue Apr 13 23:11:25 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q References: <20040413104231.4401.qmail@web14522.mail.yahoo.com> <002701c4219d$26fa0c80$3611c80a@posh3> <6.0.1.1.2.20040413195122.01e523d0@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <001501c421e6$d30129c0$3611c80a@posh3> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Seth W Fancher" To: "Kenneth Knudsen" ; ; "barry cooper" Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [ASLML] DI Q | >It can be a miss though if it's an impropable hit and the subsequent dr | >results in a 2. | | | I disagree. For improbable hits, the subsequent dr determines if the hit | is a CH (which is NA for a DI attempt) or a turret hit which will also not | result in DI. "C3.6: A subsequent dr of 1 is a CH, a 2 is a turret/upper-superstructure hit, and a 3 is a hull hit (unless HD)" In my book that means that a subsequent dr of 3 will result in a hull hit and therefore Immobilization of the target. Rolling a 1 is a CH. But since CH is NA to IH (C3.7) it would be a normal hit instead. So a subsequent dr of 1 or 3 would result in Immobilization. A 2, 4, 5 or 6 would be a miss. | | If the DR=1,1 results in a hit, the vehicle is Immobilized. Period. If it | is a miss/Improbable hit, it will miss. Why would IH not occur on a DI attempt? | | | | >Kenneth | > | >----- Original Message ----- | >From: "barry cooper" | >To: | >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:42 PM | >Subject: [ASLML] DI Q | > | > | >| Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? | >| | >| BarryCooper | >| | >| ===== | >| Barry Cooper | >| Steiner! "Let me show you where the Iron Crosses grow." | >| | >| | >| | >| | >| __________________________________ | >| Do you Yahoo!? | >| Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway | >| http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ | >| | | From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Wed Apr 14 02:39:10 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Wed Apr 14 02:42:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q References: <20040413222302.79036.qmail@web41004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c42204$56e9e840$3611c80a@posh3> 1,1 is only a turret hit if the target is Hull Down. Otherwise it's always a hull hit. In a HD situation, DI is NA. So those two rules cannot contradict eachother. Kenneth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Airius" To: "Kenneth Knudsen" ; ; "barry cooper" Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [ASLML] DI Q | I thought 1,1 was always a turret hit and was the one | exception to the colored die < non colored die for | target location determination... (all other doubles | that would be hits are hull hits, 2,2 3,3 4,4 5,5 and | if 6,6 hits you have one hell of an aim and one hell | of a reliable gun :)... | | -Wes "I need a B13 the way I shoot sometimes" Wagner | | --- Kenneth Knudsen | wrote: | > Rolling 1,1 is always a Hull Hit and therefore could | > very well result in a DI hit. | > It can be a miss though if it's an impropable hit | > and the subsequent dr results in a 2. | > | > Kenneth | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "barry cooper" | > To: | > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:42 PM | > Subject: [ASLML] DI Q | > | > | > | Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? | > | | > | BarryCooper | > | | > | ===== | > | Barry Cooper | > | Steiner! "Let me show you where the Iron Crosses | > grow." | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | __________________________________ | > | Do you Yahoo!? | > | Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway | > | http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ | > | | > | | | | | | __________________________________ | Do you Yahoo!? | Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th | http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From weflemi at mbj.nifty.com Wed Apr 14 03:58:34 2004 From: weflemi at mbj.nifty.com (Will Fleming) Date: Wed Apr 14 04:01:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <001501c421e6$d30129c0$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <000601c4220f$6e3271b0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Seth came through with the skinny: >"C3.6: A subsequent dr of 1 is a CH, a 2 is a turret/upper-superstructure >hit, and a 3 is a hull hit (unless HD)" >In my book that means that a subsequent dr of 3 will result in a hull hit >and therefore Immobilization of the target. >Rolling a 1 is a CH. But since CH is NA to IH (C3.7) it would be a normal >hit instead. So a subsequent dr of 1 or 3 would result in >Immobilization. A 2, 4, 5 or 6 would be a miss. Of which I agree. This is a pretty rare case. If you are going to try DI and need an improbable hit to make it happen, you are probably better off just firing normally and hoping for a CH. Probably a better chance for a kill than just going for the DI at that point. Maybe if you need a 2 or less to hit anyway and you have zero chance of punching through if you do hit, you might want to go for DI. Those would be some desperate times---glad I didn't have to worry about that with my Is-2m's last weekend. :P Will From bebakken at hotmail.com Wed Apr 14 04:25:27 2004 From: bebakken at hotmail.com (Bruce Bakken) Date: Wed Apr 14 04:28:48 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Overlay Hi4? Message-ID: The "Hi4" overlay is found on one of two sheets of overlays that came with Action Pack #2. Regards, Bruce Bakken >From: David Olie >To: Ethan Strauss >CC: ASL List >Subject: Re: [ASLML] Overlay Hi4? >Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:18:59 -0300 > >Ethan wrote: > > > Does anyone know what a "Hi" overlay is? >"Hi" overlays are hills. > > > I am trying to look at some scenarios for the ASL open and Hi4 overlay >is >used in at least >2 of them ( FE21 TIGER OF VITEBSK, and Sp91, Show a >little Guts). I have looked >through all my overlays and I don't have any >"Hi", and I looked at >http://ankif.free.fr/asl/overlays.html and found no >listing for Hi. I assume they came with >something I don't own. If anyone >has an image or even just a short description, I would >appreciate it. >I can't remember where these overlays came from either (although I suspect >it was CdG). Hi4 is a four-hex Level 1 hill mass, as you might guess. >Don't know how better to describe it. > >David "don't know this; don't know that" Olie > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 months! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Wed Apr 14 05:22:12 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Wed Apr 14 05:25:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q References: <000601c4220f$6e3271b0$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Message-ID: <001201c4221b$1e0d3560$3611c80a@posh3> Actually, I said that and Seth seems to disagree, but nevermind that. Just bare in mind that DI is only allowed if the firing weapon's Basic TK# is > the targets lowest hull AF. So if you can't punch through it, there's a risk that DI is disallowed, in which case you can't harm that AFV at all with that weapon. ATR's usually fall for this one vs later war AFV's (EX: IS-2, IS-3, Tigers). Kenneth "not Seth" Knudsen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Fleming" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [ASLML] DI Q Seth came through with the skinny: >"C3.6: A subsequent dr of 1 is a CH, a 2 is a turret/upper-superstructure >hit, and a 3 is a hull hit (unless HD)" >In my book that means that a subsequent dr of 3 will result in a hull hit >and therefore Immobilization of the target. >Rolling a 1 is a CH. But since CH is NA to IH (C3.7) it would be a normal >hit instead. So a subsequent dr of 1 or 3 would result in >Immobilization. A 2, 4, 5 or 6 would be a miss. Of which I agree. This is a pretty rare case. If you are going to try DI and need an improbable hit to make it happen, you are probably better off just firing normally and hoping for a CH. Probably a better chance for a kill than just going for the DI at that point. Maybe if you need a 2 or less to hit anyway and you have zero chance of punching through if you do hit, you might want to go for DI. Those would be some desperate times---glad I didn't have to worry about that with my Is-2m's last weekend. :P Will From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Apr 14 06:26:05 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Apr 14 06:29:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Squad Reduction with BF In-Reply-To: <000d01c4214e$ef903e70$1e02a8c0@MORIA> References: <000d01c4214e$ef903e70$1e02a8c0@MORIA> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:00:38 +0900, "Will Fleming" wrote: >I agree and we both played it that way, but the rules are vague. The only reason you think the rule is vague because you're plagued by the memory that this HS used to be a squad. The rules don't care what it *used* to be, they only care what it is *now* -- and *now* it's a HS that has already First Fired, so it may not also First Fire a SW. There is nothing vague about it, and A7.352 is exactly the rule that tells you how to play it. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Apr 14 06:31:25 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Apr 14 06:34:46 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Overlay Hi4? In-Reply-To: <00d101c421cf$c1baacc0$a64d8918@klis.com> References: <84A048E51A0101448AF43BF3DDAB716807F53C5C@madmsg001.promega.com> <00d101c421cf$c1baacc0$a64d8918@klis.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 00:18:59 -0300, David Olie wrote: >Ethan wrote: > >> I am trying to look at some scenarios for the ASL open and Hi4 overlay is >used in at least >2 of them ( FE21 TIGER OF VITEBSK, and Sp91, Show a >little Guts). I have looked >through all my overlays and I don't have any >"Hi", and I looked at >http://ankif.free.fr/asl/overlays.html and found no >listing for Hi. Tch, tch. Should have checked the FAQ, where it will tell you that Hi4 comes in Action Pack #2. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From john.slotwinski at nist.gov Wed Apr 14 07:00:14 2004 From: john.slotwinski at nist.gov (John Slotwinski) Date: Wed Apr 14 07:03:44 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Firelane at Night In-Reply-To: <001c01c41efd$a6ee97f0$ece63fc8@D5G57231> References: <004201c41ed5$b5df63c0$29bb2b50@cerberus> <001301c41efb$5b3e4a50$ece63fc8@D5G57231> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20040414095808.00ae8a28@mailserver.nist.gov> Guys: Of course, this is just a theoretical question since the Canadian defenders in HS28 suffer from ammo shortage and thus are not permitted to lay a FL. :) js At 08:13 AM 4/10/2004 -0500, Larry L. Memmott wrote: >Playing HS 28: Battered Remnants and an interesting, but undoubtedly not >unusual, question has come up. > >RB1 (E1.71) states that to lay a bore-sighted firelane no attack need be >made. > >Q&A (J1) states that a MG laying a firelane at the start of the enemy MPh >need not make a DR to check for malf/cower/SAN. > >However, there is nothing in either to say that the initial laying of the FL >need be at the beginning of the enemy MPh. > >If the FL is initially laid during, but not at the beginning of, the enemy >MPh, must the dice be rolled? > >Thanks, > >Larry From bprobst at netspace.net.au Wed Apr 14 06:39:45 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Wed Apr 14 07:04:32 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <001501c421e6$d30129c0$3611c80a@posh3> References: <20040413104231.4401.qmail@web14522.mail.yahoo.com> <002701c4219d$26fa0c80$3611c80a@posh3> <6.0.1.1.2.20040413195122.01e523d0@mindspring.com> <001501c421e6$d30129c0$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <7ffq709uisje2ffb0sp4g0a1kd38l0ap15@4ax.com> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 08:07:53 +0200, "Kenneth Knudsen" wrote: >"C3.6: A subsequent dr of 1 is a CH, a 2 is a turret/upper-superstructure hit, and a 3 is a hull hit (unless HD)" >In my book that means that a subsequent dr of 3 will result in a hull hit and therefore Immobilization of the target. >Rolling a 1 is a CH. But since CH is NA to IH (C3.7) it would be a normal hit instead. So a subsequent dr of 1 or 3 would result in >Immobilization. A 2, 4, 5 or 6 would be a miss. Can't fault Kenneth's logic here. Can you imagine the agony of needing an Improbable hit to get your (clearly) desperately-needed DI result, only to see it fail because your subsequent dr meant it hit the turret? I think I would just surrender at that point .... The other potential irony is trying for a DI and getting lots of ROF, except that because you're getting ROF you're probably hitting the turret. "Aim lower, you idiots!" ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Wed Apr 14 07:30:47 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Wed Apr 14 07:34:21 2004 Subject: [ASLML] HEAT question Message-ID: <002101c4222d$13e0aa60$3611c80a@posh3> Does a HEAT shot against infantry in a building have to be fired as Infantry Target Type? If so, What's the point, since the HE Equivalency is 12FP and therefore less than the 14FP a normal 75mm AP would generate. I know you get "an extra shot" by trying for special ammo, but is there anything I have missed here? Kenneth From airius at yahoo.com Wed Apr 14 07:38:03 2004 From: airius at yahoo.com (Airius) Date: Wed Apr 14 07:41:28 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <59A7FF811204D711973C0008C7E690CB02BE64CA@EVRSRV04> Message-ID: <20040414143803.94543.qmail@web41009.mail.yahoo.com> True, the shot still counts, it just blasts open the breach on the way out ;) better hope you have a spare hinge laying around... -Wes --- Björn_DOOLAEGHE wrote: > 1,1 is a hull hit. Exceptions include but may not > be limited to a HD > target, where you hit the turret. > > And rolling 6,6 coud be a hit (large target, > acquisition, close range, they > can add up) and the hit that malfs the Gun still > counts, no? > > > > > I thought 1,1 was always a turret hit and was the > one > > exception to the colored die < non colored die for > > target location determination... (all other > doubles > > that would be hits are hull hits, 2,2 3,3 4,4 5,5 > and > > if 6,6 hits you have one hell of an aim and one > hell > > of a reliable gun :)... > > > > -Wes "I need a B13 the way I shoot sometimes" > Wagner > > > > --- Kenneth Knudsen > > wrote: > > > Rolling 1,1 is always a Hull Hit and therefore > could > > > very well result in a DI hit. > > > It can be a miss though if it's an impropable > hit > > > and the subsequent dr results in a 2. > > > > > > Kenneth > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "barry cooper" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:42 PM > > > Subject: [ASLML] DI Q > > > > > > > > > | Are snake-eyes on a DI attempt a miss? > > > | > > > | BarryCooper > > > | > > > | ===== > > > | Barry Cooper > > > | Steiner! "Let me show you where the Iron > Crosses > > > grow." > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > | __________________________________ > > > | Do you Yahoo!? > > > | Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway > > > > | http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ > > > | > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Wed Apr 14 07:47:55 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Wed Apr 14 07:51:32 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Rout Q Message-ID: <002a01c4222f$78f0c9b0$3611c80a@posh3> Dig out the last example on page A12. Imagine there is a vehicle in bypass of O3-N3 and a broken enemy unit in P3. Can the broken unit Rout to P2? In doing so , he is not decreasing the distance between them nor is he moving ADJACENT to the vehicle since there is no LOS between P2 and a unit in bypass of O3-N3. What says the list? Kenneth From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Wed Apr 14 07:51:17 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Wed Apr 14 07:54:37 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <001501c421e6$d30129c0$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <000901c4222f$f14402b0$647ba8c0@samb03> Kenneth Knudsen wrote: > Why would IH not occur on a DI attempt? For those that haven't been following... IH is "Improbable Hit" (e.g. Critical Hit) on a "Deliberate Immobilization" attempt. And the answer is? Because of C5.72 "A Deliberate Immobilization hit is not resolved on a To Kill Table - even if it otherwise would be considered a CH;..." If you announce a deliberate Immobilization attempt then all that can happen is you hit and immobilize or you miss. And you can break your gun, run out of special ammo, activate the other guy's sniper and whack you best leader, but that's another discussion... :) Sam From john.barkoviak at verizon.net Wed Apr 14 08:06:10 2004 From: john.barkoviak at verizon.net (John Barkoviak) Date: Wed Apr 14 08:09:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Teamspeak vs Yahoo Messenger... Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040414100606.00b1a368@incoming.verizon.net> can someone tell me the advantage of using Teamspeak over Yahoo Messengers Chat program? i used Yahoo Messenger, which is FREE too, this past Friday for the first time and had a great time playing VASL. It was the first time for me to use any type of chat program with VASL. the reason for the question above, is that it seems to me that Teamspeak is down or offline or just doesn't work all the time. i have never had a problem with Yahoo Messenger. thanks for your imput!!!! John"Bark" "Dare To Fail!" ~ Norman Vaughn From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Wed Apr 14 08:08:20 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Wed Apr 14 08:11:57 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q References: <000901c4222f$f14402b0$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <003b01c42232$52a9b7a0$3611c80a@posh3> Sam Belcher wrote: > >Kenneth Knudsen wrote: > >> Why would IH not occur on a DI attempt? > >For those that haven't been following... IH is "Improbable Hit" (e.g. >Critical Hit) on a "Deliberate Immobilization" attempt. > >And the answer is? Because of C5.72 > >"A Deliberate Immobilization hit is not resolved on a To Kill Table - even >if it otherwise would be considered a CH;..." > That sentence says nothing about Improbable Hits. Dont mix up CH with IH please. >If you announce a deliberate Immobilization attempt then all that can happen >is you hit and immobilize or you miss. Correct, but if (and I quote C3.6) "firing under adverse conditions, it can become impossible to roll < or equal to the required TH#. In this case (...), the firer still obtains a hit with an Original 2 TH DR (Note no reference to CH. We are talking about a 1,1 roll - not a CH) by making a subsequent dr of 1, 2 or 3." So I still dont see any reason why Improbable Hits cannot occur on a Deliberate Immobilization attempt. > >And you can break your gun, run out of special ammo, activate the other >guy's sniper and whack you best leader, but that's another discussion... :) > >Sam > > From john.barkoviak at verizon.net Wed Apr 14 08:08:44 2004 From: john.barkoviak at verizon.net (John Barkoviak) Date: Wed Apr 14 08:12:24 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Chat VASL Opponent... Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040414100632.00b6f928@incoming.verizon.net> i'm looking for an easy going ASLer who can play either on Monday or Wednesday nights from 2030 to 2230 on a regular basis using Yahoo Messenger's chat program to supplement VASL. email me res1cny5@verizon.net thanks! John"Bark" "Dare To Fail!" ~ Norman Vaughn From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Wed Apr 14 08:56:48 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Wed Apr 14 09:00:12 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <003b01c42232$52a9b7a0$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <000201c42239$18caa330$647ba8c0@samb03> > Correct, but if (and I quote C3.6) "firing under adverse > conditions, it can become impossible to roll < or equal to > the required TH#. In this case (...), the firer still obtains > a hit with an Original 2 TH DR (Note no reference to CH. We > are talking about a 1,1 roll - not a CH) by making a > subsequent dr of 1, 2 or 3." So I still dont see any reason > why Improbable Hits cannot occur on a Deliberate > Immobilization attempt. So, you are saying that a Deliberate Immobilization attempt can result in a critical hit, but only if the TH modifiers are soooooo bad that a "2" (1,1) is a miss? In addition to pointing out that this is absurd (reality argument, sorry) I'd like to point out that Deliberate Immobilization is the "higher numbered rule" (Critical hit is C3.7, Deliberat Immobilization is C5.72). It says (in part) "A Deliberate Immobilization hit is not resolved on a To Kill Table - even if it otherwise would be considered a CH..." So this statement takes precidence over C3.7 (higher numbered rule). A deliberate immobilization hit is NOT RESOLVED on the to kill table EVEN IF IT WOULD OTHERWISE BE A CRITICAL HIT. If you are correct, then please explain to me what those words "really" mean. If you are correct, then under some circumstances a DI attempt can "become" a critical hit. But the rule on DI clearly states that this can never happen. Thanks From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Wed Apr 14 08:57:35 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Wed Apr 14 09:01:10 2004 Subject: [ASLML] HEAT question References: <002101c4222d$13e0aa60$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <004101c42239$34227450$3611c80a@posh3> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Snow" To: "Kenneth Knudsen" Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [ASLML] HEAT question | On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Kenneth Knudsen wrote: | | > Does a HEAT shot against infantry in a building have to be fired as | > Infantry Target Type? | | Yes, although Area Target Type might also be legal. I thought C3.33 forbid you to use the Area Target Type when using AP/HEAT HE Equivalency. | | > | > If so, What's the point, since the HE Equivalency is 12FP and therefore | > less than the 14FP a normal 75mm AP would generate. I know you get "an | > extra shot" by trying for special ammo, but is there anything I have | > missed here? | > | | You mean normal HE, right? An AP round will only be 2FP. Yes HE 14 FP. | | But you're pretty much correct. If you've got regular HE, you should fire | it instead of HEAT vs Infantry. But in case you're out of HE, HEAT is a | possibility. Some guns might have limited HE so you might run out. | | The second shot from special ammo is another consideration. So its the extra shot vs the lower FP. But I think in a scenario with no opposing AFV's, one might as well just try it. | | Doesn't sound like you've missed anything. :-) | | | Martin Snow <*> | snowm@ucsu.colorado.edu | http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~snowm/Home.html | From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Wed Apr 14 09:14:20 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Wed Apr 14 09:17:57 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q References: <000201c42239$18caa330$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <004601c4223b$8af4a440$3611c80a@posh3> >> Correct, but if (and I quote C3.6) "firing under adverse >> conditions, it can become impossible to roll < or equal to >> the required TH#. In this case (...), the firer still obtains >> a hit with an Original 2 TH DR (Note no reference to CH. We >> are talking about a 1,1 roll - not a CH) by making a >> subsequent dr of 1, 2 or 3." So I still dont see any reason >> why Improbable Hits cannot occur on a Deliberate >> Immobilization attempt. > >So, you are saying that a Deliberate Immobilization attempt can result in a >critical hit, but only if the TH modifiers are soooooo bad that a "2" (1,1) >is a miss? Say what? I am not talking about critical hit at all. You are. A 2 TH DR is not the same thing as a CH. CH is NA for DI doesnt mean that a 2 DR is a miss. It just mean that no such thing as a CH exists when trying for DI. Why is that so difficult to realize? > >In addition to pointing out that this is absurd (reality argument, sorry) >I'd like to point out that Deliberate Immobilization is the "higher numbered >rule" (Critical hit is C3.7, Deliberat Immobilization is C5.72). It says (in >part) "A Deliberate Immobilization hit is not resolved on a To Kill Table - >even if it otherwise would be considered a CH..." I'm talking about C3.6, not C3.7. > >So this statement takes precidence over C3.7 (higher numbered rule). A >deliberate immobilization hit is NOT RESOLVED on the to kill table EVEN IF >IT WOULD OTHERWISE BE A CRITICAL HIT. If you are correct, then please >explain to me what those words "really" mean. "A deliberate immobilization hit is NOT RESOLVED on the to kill table..." Means that a immobilization hit is instant. No To Kill DR is required. "...EVEN IF IT WOULD OTHERWISE BE A CRITICAL HIT" Means even if it would have been a critical hit, had you fired normally instead of deliberate immobilization. > >If you are correct, then under some circumstances a DI attempt can "become" >a critical hit. How is that? > But the rule on DI clearly states that this can never >happen. Correct. CH is NA for DI. > >Thanks > Welcome From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Wed Apr 14 10:35:09 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Wed Apr 14 09:38:27 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Overlay Hi4? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c42246$d5fab910$6401a8c0@NewDell> You could probably use the G4 overlay and consider the grain to be a level 1 hill. From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Wed Apr 14 10:22:05 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Wed Apr 14 10:25:27 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DI Q In-Reply-To: <004601c4223b$8af4a440$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <000a01c42245$028d02a0$647ba8c0@samb03> > >> Correct, but if (and I quote C3.6) "firing under adverse > >> conditions, it can become impossible to roll < or equal to > >> the required TH#. In this case (...), the firer still obtains > >> a hit with an Original 2 TH DR (Note no reference to CH. We > >> are talking about a 1,1 roll - not a CH) by making a > >> subsequent dr of 1, 2 or 3." So I still dont see any reason > >> why Improbable Hits cannot occur on a Deliberate > >> Immobilization attempt. > > > >So, you are saying that a Deliberate Immobilization attempt > can result > >in a critical hit, but only if the TH modifiers are soooooo > bad that a > >"2" (1,1) is a miss? > > Say what? > I am not talking about critical hit at all. You are. > A 2 TH DR is not the same thing as a CH. > CH is NA for DI doesnt mean that a 2 DR is a miss. It just > mean that no such thing as a CH exists when trying for DI. > Why is that so difficult to realize? So what are you saying? What has an improbably hit got to do with Deliberate Immobilization? What has the subsequent dr for an improbably hit got to do with deliberate immobilization? If you try for DI and roll 1,1 and then roll singe die and get a 1 - did you get a critical hit? Sorry if I misunderstood, but at this point (and maybe thro the whole thread) I have no idea what you are saying. ;) Sam