From geb3 at inter.net Thu Apr 1 01:19:27 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu Apr 1 01:16:30 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Firefly mystery Message-ID: Somebody please point me in the right direction regarding WoA & FKaC Sherman VC. I have a hand-written note to myself from an ASLML post that I believe was from Perry (cannot find it anymore) saying that the Firefly VC ID "F" counter mistakenly shows a BMG, but both my IIC & VC counters from WoA (also Chap N images), as well as the new FKaC counters show no such error. What's wrong with my memory? Or, does the problem turn up elsewhere. George "light me up, baby" Bates Yokohama, Japan Now in progress: J53 "Setting The Stage", German vs. David Olie SASL M13 "Recon", Free French vs. German ENEMY From geb3 at inter.net Thu Apr 1 01:59:29 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu Apr 1 01:56:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Moderators vs Stormtroopers In-Reply-To: <008001c41797$66a4e680$8101a8c0@warwick.net> Message-ID: Where have you been hiding, Dolan? Come back to the Light! - G -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]On Behalf Of Phlegm Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:14 PM To: Paul Ferraro; ASL List Subject: [ASLML] Moderators vs Stormtroopers Death to the Moderators! Nuke the Stormtroopers! Play Crokinole!!! From rockgheba at libero.it Thu Apr 1 02:29:15 2004 From: rockgheba at libero.it (rockgheba@libero.it) Date: Thu Apr 1 02:32:09 2004 Subject: [ASLML] KGP II and KR counters Message-ID: Hi guys! Scott asked: > Hello all...yes, I'm still here--just lurking due to an extremely heavy work and family load. *sigh* I owe Mario my KGP II module...anyone know what counters came with that module? Any idea what counters came with J2--Kakazu Ridge? > Scott, if I'm not wrong you owe me KGP I, not II! Take your time with Real Life (TM) business, and get to play once in a while! Be well! From dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk Thu Apr 1 02:59:52 2004 From: dschofie at bournemouth.ac.uk (David Schofield) Date: Thu Apr 1 03:05:43 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Message-ID: <4C40C6148BACD711AEF800805F8B335E0113834E@exchange1.bournemouth.ac.uk> Great tournament Pete. Well organised and great fun. Cheers David -----Original Message----- From: Pete Phillipps [mailto:pete@vftt.co.uk] Sent: 30 March 2004 23:35 To: ASL Mailing List Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Hi Everyone, Just back from the HEROES 2004 ASL weekend in Blackpool, and the results are as follows: Tournament champion, with a 5-0 record was Toby Pilling, who wins a framed certificate and a cheque for ?75. Worst player, with a 0-5 record was Nigel Blair, who wins a copy of the ASL Starter Kit - hopefully he'll improve in time for INTENSIVE FIRE! The snake-eyes prize was won by Toby Pilling, who rolled 9 snakes. He walked away with ?2. The box-cars prize was won by Paul Case, who rolled 15 in his game. He knew he was gonna have a bad game as he rolled 8 of them on the first turn! Needless to say he didn't win! But he did win ?12. A good time was had by all, including 8 tournament newbies out of 35 attendees, who all are planning on coming to INTENSIVE FIRE. Which is 29 - 31 October 2004 in Bournemouth. HEROES 2005 is pencilled in for the weekend 25 - 27 March 2005. A full report of this year's event will be in VFTT55, which I hope to have out at the start of May. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 From w.kelly at lancaster.ac.uk Thu Apr 1 03:13:04 2004 From: w.kelly at lancaster.ac.uk (Kelly, Wayne) Date: Thu Apr 1 03:18:41 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Message-ID: <7F332A8009EE5D4CB62C87717A3498A1042570@exchange-be1.lancs.ac.uk> I concur. Nice one Pete. Great tournament and a very friendly bunch. Took pity on us newbies, cheers! Thanks to Ian for the Armour Tutorial despite us being diced! Looking forward to Bournemouth. Thanks Wayne -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]On Behalf Of David Schofield Sent: 01 April 2004 12:00 To: 'pete@vftt.co.uk'; ASL Mailing List Subject: RE: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Great tournament Pete. Well organised and great fun. Cheers David -----Original Message----- From: Pete Phillipps [mailto:pete@vftt.co.uk] Sent: 30 March 2004 23:35 To: ASL Mailing List Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Hi Everyone, Just back from the HEROES 2004 ASL weekend in Blackpool, and the results are as follows: Tournament champion, with a 5-0 record was Toby Pilling, who wins a framed certificate and a cheque for ?75. Worst player, with a 0-5 record was Nigel Blair, who wins a copy of the ASL Starter Kit - hopefully he'll improve in time for INTENSIVE FIRE! The snake-eyes prize was won by Toby Pilling, who rolled 9 snakes. He walked away with ?2. The box-cars prize was won by Paul Case, who rolled 15 in his game. He knew he was gonna have a bad game as he rolled 8 of them on the first turn! Needless to say he didn't win! But he did win ?12. A good time was had by all, including 8 tournament newbies out of 35 attendees, who all are planning on coming to INTENSIVE FIRE. Which is 29 - 31 October 2004 in Bournemouth. HEROES 2005 is pencilled in for the weekend 25 - 27 March 2005. A full report of this year's event will be in VFTT55, which I hope to have out at the start of May. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 From tmorin2454 at comcast.net Thu Apr 1 04:47:58 2004 From: tmorin2454 at comcast.net (tmorin2454@comcast.net) Date: Thu Apr 1 04:50:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: errata on Dispatches scenario DB041 Message-ID: <040120041247.13742.406C0F7E00050F26000035AE2200750744FFCBCACBCD91968D9092@comcast.net> To all Dispatches from the Bunker subscribers, The SAN for the U.S. in "The Killing Ground" was inadvertantly deleted from the scenario by the Publisher program, and we didn't catch the mistake. The U.S. should have a SAN:4. Our apologies to all of our subscribers, as we HATE when errata like this slips through. Anyways, hope you enjoy the scenario. regards, Tom Morin From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Thu Apr 1 04:50:54 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Thu Apr 1 04:54:12 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet Message-ID: <005301c417e7$f8a0f9c0$3611c80a@posh3> Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? Kenneth From ctewks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 1 04:50:53 2004 From: ctewks at yahoo.com (Chuck T) Date: Thu Apr 1 04:54:44 2004 Subject: [ASLML] OT - need a European opinion Message-ID: Listerz ? sorry to go off-topic, but I wanted to reach out to any players in Europe who might be able to offer some insight into a Paris-based company called Capsuletech. ?www.capsuletech.com is their web site. ? It?s next to impossible to get any good data from the hotel room I am currently in. ?Things I would like to know about are financial stability, worker opinion etc. ? Thanks much for any assist. ? ? Chuck ? _____________ Chuck T ctewks@yahoo.com ? From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Thu Apr 1 05:21:21 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Thu Apr 1 05:24:07 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results In-Reply-To: <4C40C6148BACD711AEF800805F8B335E0113834E@exchange1.bournemouth.ac.uk> Message-ID: <000701c417ec$39f78520$6401a8c0@NewDell> > Great tournament Pete. Well organised and great fun. How about an AAR guys? Or are all of you still hung over :) From sidirezegh at charter.net Thu Apr 1 05:53:26 2004 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Thu Apr 1 05:56:56 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit Added To ROAR In-Reply-To: <002101c41798$1a163f70$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <000a01c417f0$b5292920$9bfebe42@argent> Folks- The ASL Starter Kit scenarios have been added to ROAR, so when you let your Newbie trounce you please enter the result. http://www.jrvdev.com/ROAR/VER1/default.asp Many thanks once again to JR & all the work he does with ROAR. Regards, Chas +++++++++++++++++ Chas Argent sidirezegh@charter.net Medford, Oregon, USA From geb3 at inter.net Thu Apr 1 07:49:02 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu Apr 1 07:46:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Product Review: ASL Starter Kit #1 (long) Message-ID: OK, kids, I've spent so much time the last 2 days wading through this baby that I'm behind on 2 projects, my chores at home, AARs from last weekend and my PBeM games (I have remembered to shower). So I have something to show for this "wasted time", as my wife calls it, I thought I'd share what I've found with the rest of the class, particularly anybody who has held back from acquiring it yet. Some of these thoughts have already surfaced in other posts as I've typed the last 36 hours. Apologies in advance for things repeated. For those of you who want to hit "delete" and move on, I'll give the overall grade first: A- This product succeeds at doing what has needed to be done since the curtain came down on AHGC in '98. We now have a self-contained introduction to the hobby that the current generation of pimply-faced nerds & geeks born during the '80s can both afford and understand. The chrome is off, the rules are bite-sized and we're back to a "beer (or Mountain Dew? Diet Coke?) & pretzels" game that can be learned _and_ played (twice!) in an afternoon. More fun than a barrel o' monkeys for less than one Andrew and one Abe. Then, if the crowd is hungry for more, they can dive deeper into the ASL canon. Now for the details. I think I'll follow the handy parts list MMP sticks in their products these days. Box: Serviceable and attractive. Same construction as the recent historical studies. What I like best is this simple sentence on the front, "This game contains everything you need to begin playing Advanced Squad Leader." 'nuff said. Mapboards: I think we're seeing the wave of the future here folks, and it is cardstock. It's the obvious middle-ground between cost & sturdiness. I haven't taken them down to Kinko's yet, but having spent 7 years of my career there I think I can safely say they're going to take laminate even better than the unmounted maps because they're firm, not floppy. Now, don't roll boxcars and find they've been eaten by the rollers!!! I'm a little disturbed that my boards were trimmed a bit off center, with the top of hex number 1 grid lines being shaved off while there is a little surplus on the end of the number 10 hexes. But this is a matter of +-1mm, and I can live with it. Tom Repetti's question about the use of cookie-cutter buildings needs answering. A quick examination shows that yD8 & yo10 are perfect clones, while zF5 appears to be a "Mini Me" of yM4. I have to call this chintzy, too, in spite of the need to keep costs under control. Other terrain are roads (paved & unpaved), woods (and woods road), orchard and grain. All level 0. The ASL SK world is flatter than a classroom full of middle school girls in Kobe. Not much else of note here, except that the vast majority of buildings are stone, so our newbies will be getting over-used to +3 mods. BTW, there are no 10-3 leaders in the counter mix. Countersheet: Wow, look at that segue! New Yorker, here I come... The countersheet is of the same standard we have seen in the HSs and in FKaC. I love these sheets because MMP has finally got a printer with sharp, accurate dies. The cuts are center-on and clean. No more stubble on the counter sides, either. All "hanging chads" have been relegated to the corners, which our flocks of newbies will soon learn to trim. I can hear the hazing at the Dubuque Cornfield Wars 2004 now, "Hey, Meat, you've got sloppy counters. When you get to the Show, you can leave your counters untrimmed, and the press will call you 'colorful'. Here, it just means you're a slob, so pick up a nail cutter at 7/11 and get to work." Last year Will Fleming raised a question about spray-on fixative smearing the counter ink. I don't know if he ever got an answer to his concerns, and I don't use the stuff myself. Still it appears to be fairly common in the community, so it might be helpful to see some follow-up. Now for content. Germans are in the majority, probably because they have the greatest variety of squad types. All but the 838 ubermenschen are represented. This makes the US 747 top dog on the ASL SK street. Though there is only one 667, there are 1st & 2nd line rifle and even greenies in good numbers. I was looking forward to seeing more Russian 447s and 426s to fill gaps in my swarming Soviet masses, but there are only 5 & 6 of them, respectively. In addition, Ivan gets 14(!)x458 and 3x527, with no 628s in the mix. Ah well... SW are limited to MGs, FTs & DCs. The Soviets (naturally) come out on the short end of the stick; no HMG, .50cal or FT, and just one of those overweight, cantankerous Maxim guns plus 3 LMG. Nazi's get a liberal supply of LMGs with 2 MMGs and an HMG. Americans are blessed with 2 MMGs and a .50 cal, but no water-cooled HMGs. Rulebook: Some have suggested that the Starter Kit is not Programmed Instruction, but I would suggest that it is in a very broad sense. Although new rules are not added each scenario, what is presented to novices here is a very limited amount of Chapters A & B that should penetrate the noggin by the time the 6 scenarios have concluded. With any luck the Starter Kit #2 will be along soon and our initiates will get a second dose of infantry rules and new terrain plus EC. Then there'll be #3 with another step. Looks purt' near like PI to me, Clem, but you can call it what you like. It's _still_ good for the hobby. This is 12 pages of easy to read typeface with plenty of clear color illustrations and examples. Rules are explained according to their order in the SoP, for the most part. I like these rules in that they tell players _what to do_, as opposed to the ASLRB which defines terms and establishes the parameters of each rule. In this sense, the SK rulebook is clearer and more understandable than it's counterpart sections of Chapter A & B. The SKs together may end up making the ASLRB more of a "reference guide." What's left out for next time? Here's an unofficial, incomplete list: spraying fire, snipers, underlined ELR, fire lanes, concealment, HtH CC, cavalry, fires, EC and wind, bypass, HOB, prisoners, dm MGs... How many of us will instinctively roll for Wind Change at first and watch our new students of the game say, "Huh?" Adding another A3 or 11x17 sheet would create four additional pages of text. Or if you shrank the cover illustration, credits, MMP ad and a few other places you might get back two columns. If you were at MMP, what would you include in the extra space? More on that later. Scenarios: Sam Belcher just did a great job of summarizing the scenario content, so I'll bow to him and move on quickly. One is a Pete Shelling opus so that will serve to introduce our acolytes to the Master. Can these scenarios be played fairly & enjoyably with all Chapter A rules? Hellufino yet, but there's nothing wrong with trying. Can't imagine it would make that much difference. We'll find out after they've been played for a while. A quick interlude here on all the text in the module. I'm afraid I feel that I still see far too many easily preventable errors for a commercial product like this. For example: - There is a glaring error involving DM removal in the Rally Example (recently pointed out, I believe). Bound to create newbie confusion. - Unnecessary use of passive voice abounds. SVO. KISS. - Easy ones like, "... the grenadiers ... haved to face ..." in a scenario aftermath. If my English Comp teacher were still alive... - Reference to 6te Armee commander as "Paulus", not "von Paulus". May be rejected at the borders by FRG customs just on principle. My suggestion, hard though it may be on the bottom line, is that MMP's proofreading and editing cadre is not up to the task. A professional editor is needed on every project to keep the text at an acceptable level of quality. I wouldn't put up with this in a product manual or a presentation, and I think this is an equivalent case. Anybody out there who writes for a living want to volunteer to help? This is the hardest thing I have to say about a product I like very, very much. I hope it will be taken in the spirit intended. QRDC: When this acronym pops up, I _really_ feel like we're back in SL. Back to one 8.5x11, too. I see our tender young minds will be getting fed the orthodox line as only the IFT is represented. The addition of the MF/PP chart from one of the earlier Journals (or was it an Annual?) is a very nice touch. Dice: Not much to note here, but for some strange reason the colored die is a few mm smaller across each side. Probably doesn't matter statistically, but it really feels odd. Somebody trying to get rid of inventory? What to leave out? Overall, it's hard to argue with the choices that MMP has made for what should constitute the "basic" infantry game. Spraying fire wouldn't have been that hard to include, nor would Snipers, but they are definitely not core. Still, I don't want to start seeing a lot of new guys get into the bad habit of not consciously looking for a possible SAN on every die roll. Bypass and fire lanes definitely belong in an "intermediate" game. So does concealment, although it is critical to successful play. I think my vote would go to a modified HOB w/o surrender. Heroes, battle hardening and berserk add a lot of spice to the game. But perhaps that's too much countersheet and rulebook space after all. Sigh... Acknowledgements: It looks like Ken Dunn and Pete Phillips in particular were big contributors to MMP's effort to create this product. Goes without saying that without MMP and the playtest crews nothing would have happened. I'm curious also if Robert Wolkey's iASL initiative from a while ago was part of what helped get this off the ground. I understand he had to abandon this effort for lack of time, but if he was part of the inspiration, I hope he gets some recognition. Wolkster has always been very vocal about bringing new blood into the hobby. To summarize, this feels a lot like going back to Squad Leader again, and I'm very happy to have it. Personally, I made a very strange jump into ASL, having owned the rulebook but nothing else for many years and with only a few SL series experiences under my belt. Then, I got lost in my career for 10 years. I came back into it solitaire in '99 and found the smoke rising from the ruins of AHGC. Since then, with the generous help of Will Fleming and Malcolm Rutledge, I've gradually found my legs, but many things still don't come naturally to me. This product may help me finally get the kinks out of my basic game and start playing in a more fast-paced, coherent manner. I think my next six scenarios have just been picked! Roll low every one! I gotta go to bed. George Bates Yokohama, Japan Now in progress: J53 "Setting The Stage", German vs. David Olie SASL M13 "Recon", Free French vs. German ENEMY From JPAPAS at ci.duluth.mn.us Thu Apr 1 07:55:40 2004 From: JPAPAS at ci.duluth.mn.us (Jeff Papas ) Date: Thu Apr 1 07:59:12 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Product Review: ASL Starter Kit #1 (long) Message-ID: Me. I volunteer every time someone suggests this. :) But then I think the powers that be already know that. Nice review, George! Jeff "Does media relations / writing / proofing in non ASL-time" Papas >>> "George Bates" 04/01/04 09:49AM >>> A professional editor is needed on every project to keep the text at an acceptable level of quality. I wouldn't put up with this in a product manual or a presentation, and I think this is an equivalent case. Anybody out there who writes for a living want to volunteer to help? This is the hardest thing I have to say about a product I like very, very much. I hope it will be taken in the spirit intended. From m_b_h at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 1 08:15:51 2004 From: m_b_h at sbcglobal.net (Michael Handiboe) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:19:08 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions References: <002101c41798$1a163f70$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <039f01c41804$9a2ea320$fb0110ac@computer> I am thrilled about this product. Before ASLSK release, I was torn between playing SL (because I could) and the much better ASL (because I liked it more). Now, I can abandon ol' SL forever and not have to bother with two different sets of rules. Yet I have some concerns: Are there any rules that _change_ when moving from iASL to ASL? I didn't notice any, but I'm hardly an authority on the ASL rules. For example, last time I played ASL, I couldn't find the rules re: firing MMG/HMG in the AdvFirePh if they moved immediately beforehand. iASL clearly states that such SW cannot fire after moving. Can I be sure that this rule holds true in ASL? Can anyone point me to the rule number? I too, preordered two copies and I received mine on Tuesday. I hope to get the neighbor ROTC guy involved ... ('hooked', actually :-) ) Thank you and good job, MMP! ---Michael From keithdalton at verizon.net Thu Apr 1 08:19:51 2004 From: keithdalton at verizon.net (keithdalton@verizon.net) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:22:43 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions Message-ID: <20040401161952.TDIT11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full ASL rules wrap over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the transition, it's just added to what is already there. Keith > > From: "Michael Handiboe" > Date: 2004/04/01 Thu AM 10:15:51 CST > To: "'ASL Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions > > I am thrilled about this product. > > Before ASLSK release, I was torn between playing SL (because I could) > and the much better ASL (because I liked it more). > > Now, I can abandon ol' SL forever and not have to bother with two > different sets of rules. > > Yet I have some concerns: Are there any rules that _change_ when moving > from > iASL to ASL? I didn't notice any, but I'm hardly an authority on the ASL > rules. > > For example, last time I played ASL, I couldn't find the rules re: firing > MMG/HMG > in the AdvFirePh if they moved immediately beforehand. iASL clearly states > that such SW cannot fire after moving. Can I be sure that this rule holds > true > in ASL? Can anyone point me to the rule number? > > I too, preordered two copies and I received mine on Tuesday. I hope to get > the > neighbor ROTC guy involved ... ('hooked', actually :-) ) > > Thank you and good job, MMP! > > ---Michael > > > From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 08:24:42 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:27:33 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: errata on Dispatches scenario DB041 In-Reply-To: <040120041247.13742.406C0F7E00050F26000035AE2200750744FFCBCACBCD91968D9092@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001401c41805$d7270be0$647ba8c0@samb03> > To all Dispatches from the Bunker subscribers, > > The SAN for the U.S. in "The Killing Ground" was > inadvertantly deleted from the scenario by the Publisher > program, and we didn't catch the mistake. > The U.S. should have a SAN:4. Our apologies to all of our > subscribers, as we HATE when errata like this slips through. > Anyways, hope you enjoy the scenario. > > regards, > > Tom Morin Geeze, Tom. There have been a lot of these posts. Doesn't anyone proofread any more? Thanks for a great product. Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 08:25:56 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:28:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet In-Reply-To: <005301c417e7$f8a0f9c0$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: <001501c41806$030e0f60$647ba8c0@samb03> > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? There were only a few.... About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble counters, etc. Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 08:27:15 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:30:05 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results In-Reply-To: <000701c417ec$39f78520$6401a8c0@NewDell> Message-ID: <001601c41806$32038b60$647ba8c0@samb03> > > Great tournament Pete. Well organised and great fun. And Brian W wrote: > How about an AAR guys? Or are all of you still hung over :) Oh? You've been to one of Pete's tourneys then? From m_b_h at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 1 08:31:32 2004 From: m_b_h at sbcglobal.net (Michael Handiboe) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:34:51 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions References: <20040401161952.TDIT11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: <03c801c41806$cb3f2500$fb0110ac@computer> Very good then. Only happier. ...how about "layers of an onion"? :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions > The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full ASL rules wrap over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the transition, it's just added to what is already there. > > Keith From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Thu Apr 1 08:32:21 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:35:41 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions References: <002101c41798$1a163f70$647ba8c0@samb03> <039f01c41804$9a2ea320$fb0110ac@computer> Message-ID: <001001c41806$e80245f0$3611c80a@posh3> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Handiboe" To: "'ASL Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions | For example, last time I played ASL, I couldn't find the rules re: firing | MMG/HMG | in the AdvFirePh if they moved immediately beforehand. iASL clearly states | that such SW cannot fire after moving. Can I be sure that this rule holds | true | in ASL? Can anyone point me to the rule number? A4.41 Kenneth From m_b_h at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 1 08:32:59 2004 From: m_b_h at sbcglobal.net (Michael Handiboe) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:36:15 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet References: <001501c41806$030e0f60$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <03d101c41806$fef8b8c0$fb0110ac@computer> My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print or something? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Belcher" To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? > > There were only a few.... > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble counters, etc. > > Sam > > From keithdalton at verizon.net Thu Apr 1 08:39:42 2004 From: keithdalton at verizon.net (keithdalton@verizon.net) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:42:34 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions Message-ID: <20040401163942.KIQA1634.out006.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> > ...how about "layers of an onion"? :-) > Parfait's have layers, how about parfaits? ;-) From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 08:40:28 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:43:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions In-Reply-To: <039f01c41804$9a2ea320$fb0110ac@computer> Message-ID: <002101c41808$0b1420d0$647ba8c0@samb03> > Yet I have some concerns: Are there any rules that _change_ > when moving from iASL to ASL? I didn't notice any, but I'm > hardly an authority on the ASL rules. I haven't noticed any differences other than that ASL -adds- a lot of rules. > For example, last time I played ASL, I couldn't find the > rules re: firing MMG/HMG in the AdvFirePh if they moved > immediately beforehand. iASL clearly states that such SW > cannot fire after moving. Can I be sure that this rule holds > true in ASL? Can anyone point me to the rule number? A4.41. Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 08:46:02 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:48:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet In-Reply-To: <03d101c41806$fef8b8c0$fb0110ac@computer> Message-ID: <002501c41808$d1e22400$647ba8c0@samb03> Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the First Edition Hedgerow Hell. Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. > -----Original Message----- > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Michael Handiboe > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print > or something? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Belcher" > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? > > > > There were only a few.... > > > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters > > > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble > counters, > > etc. > > > > Sam > > > > > > From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Thu Apr 1 08:49:12 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:52:32 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet References: <002501c41808$d1e22400$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <001d01c41809$4315f020$3611c80a@posh3> But on the MMP website, it says that there's a countersheet in the HH box. Is that an error then? Kenneth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Belcher" To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the First Edition | Hedgerow Hell. | | Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. | | | | > -----Original Message----- | > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net | > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Michael Handiboe | > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM | > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net | > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | > | > | > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print | > or something? | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "Sam Belcher" | > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; | > | > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM | > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | > | > | > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? | > > | > > There were only a few.... | > > | > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters | > > | > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble | > counters, | > > etc. | > > | > > Sam | > > | > > | > | > | | | From cameron.henson at us.army.mil Thu Apr 1 08:52:30 2004 From: cameron.henson at us.army.mil (cameron.henson@us.army.mil) Date: Thu Apr 1 08:55:25 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASLSK vs Partrooper & PI Message-ID: <17c9baa17ca909.17ca90917c9baa@us.army.mil> Let's look at it from your point of view then. If I purchase ASLSK and learn the rules therein, what next? Can you sit down with an opponent and play any of the hundreds of published scenarios? Not unless that person wants to teach you how to play. At some point folks are going to have to make that decision and invest the money if they want to play the whole system. So why pay the additional $24? For most of us, we made the difficult transition from SL to ASL with BV and the ASLRB. Back then that was how much of an investment, $80? Paratrooper came out to help coax those playing SL to ASL and in itself added more rules as you progressed through the Paratrooper scenarios. But when we finished with the transition we were versed well enough in the rules to start playing any of the ASL scenarios. If ASLSK gets people interested in playing the full version of ASL, great. Congratulations. But what then? I really hope you all suceed, I just hope you have the business model in place to back up your ambitions. C. Kent Henson Battlin' Bastard from 'Bama ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Youse Date: Thursday, April 1, 2004 10:02 am Subject: Re: [ASLML] MMP Stormtroopers-LONG > > As for the ASLRB reprint, I wouldn't look for it anytime soon. > I'm > > glad that some people will buy and play ASLSK but I still think > we had > > a Programed Instruction system in place that would have done the > job > > with Paratrooper and its Chapter K. > > Jim Stahler's article has been available on our website for some > time, > under the ASL Articles section. Here: > http://www.multimanpublishing.com/ASL/articles.php It has been > there > for quite some time. > > However, I am much more inclined to believe that a person is more > likely to take the ASL plunge on a $24 stand-alone product rather > than > the solution of buying the ASL rulebook ($80), Paratrooper ($30+), > several maps ($10 or $24 depending on how you buy them), and > downloading the PI off our website. > > $24 versus $120+ > > I can't even believe I have to point what certainly seems to be > obvious. > The only problem with the ASL Starter Kit is that we didn't do it > five > years ago. > > Brian > > From pyoung at cwhealth.net Thu Apr 1 10:26:57 2004 From: pyoung at cwhealth.net (Peter Young) Date: Thu Apr 1 09:12:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASLSK vs Partrooper & PI References: <17c9baa17ca909.17ca90917c9baa@us.army.mil> Message-ID: <004b01c41816$ea999f60$1543030a@Young> Once the Rulebook and BV are printed (soon apparently on the ASLRB), that transition will be possible. But regardless of whether they're available right now, I can't see how the $24 Starter Kit is a bad way to start. If a player finds it's not for them, they're not out very much, and still have a self-contained game to play if the mood ever hits them. If they do get the bug, then that initial $24 will be a drop in the bucket compared to what they'll pay to get into "real" ASL. Paratrooper was designed with the large crowd of SL players in mind. That crowd (mostly) no longer exists, having likely either already made the transition to ASL long ago or aging out of the hobby. What still exists are some players still playing SL, some who tried it long ago and decided not to take the ASL plunge, and a huge flock of potential newbies who've never tried any of it. The Starter Kit exists for them and based on comments on Consimworld, a number of "rejected ASL long ago"-type players are considering this option. In a way, the Starter Kit will serve the same purpose of introducing ASL to these players that SL did for many of us. Paratrooper was a transition method for those already familiar with the system. I think it was almost useless for someone with no prior experience. Prior to the Starter Kit, the only effective way to learn (from scratch) was to have an existing player teach you, in which case you might as well take the full plunge into BV. I have to say that this may be the first time I can remember (at least in the last several years) someone defending Paratrooper as an intro module to ASL. Peter "Self-taught in spite of all the above" Young Yakima, WA http://firstfire.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Brian Youse" ; "ASL Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:52 AM Subject: [ASLML] ASLSK vs Partrooper & PI > Let's look at it from your point of view then. If I purchase ASLSK and learn the rules therein, what next? Can you sit down with an opponent and play any of the hundreds of published scenarios? Not unless that person wants to teach you how to play. At some point folks are going to have to make that decision and invest the money if they want to play the whole system. So why pay the additional $24? > > For most of us, we made the difficult transition from SL to ASL with BV and the ASLRB. Back then that was how much of an investment, $80? Paratrooper came out to help coax those playing SL to ASL and in itself added more rules as you progressed through the Paratrooper scenarios. But when we finished with the transition we were versed well enough in the rules to start playing any of the ASL scenarios. > > If ASLSK gets people interested in playing the full version of ASL, great. Congratulations. But what then? I really hope you all suceed, I just hope you have the business model in place to back up your ambitions. > > C. Kent Henson > Battlin' Bastard from 'Bama > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Youse > Date: Thursday, April 1, 2004 10:02 am > Subject: Re: [ASLML] MMP Stormtroopers-LONG > > > > As for the ASLRB reprint, I wouldn't look for it anytime soon. > > I'm > > > glad that some people will buy and play ASLSK but I still think > > we had > > > a Programed Instruction system in place that would have done the > > job > > > with Paratrooper and its Chapter K. > > > > Jim Stahler's article has been available on our website for some > > time, > > under the ASL Articles section. Here: > > http://www.multimanpublishing.com/ASL/articles.php It has been > > there > > for quite some time. > > > > However, I am much more inclined to believe that a person is more > > likely to take the ASL plunge on a $24 stand-alone product rather > > than > > the solution of buying the ASL rulebook ($80), Paratrooper ($30+), > > several maps ($10 or $24 depending on how you buy them), and > > downloading the PI off our website. > > > > $24 versus $120+ > > > > I can't even believe I have to point what certainly seems to be > > obvious. > > The only problem with the ASL Starter Kit is that we didn't do it > > five > > years ago. > > > > Brian > > > > > > > From m_b_h at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 1 09:30:49 2004 From: m_b_h at sbcglobal.net (Michael Handiboe) Date: Thu Apr 1 09:34:08 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet References: <002501c41808$d1e22400$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <043f01c4180f$1377a240$fb0110ac@computer> I am a gullible newbie. I admit ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Belcher" To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the First Edition > Hedgerow Hell. > > Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. > From cameron.henson at us.army.mil Thu Apr 1 09:33:29 2004 From: cameron.henson at us.army.mil (cameron.henson@us.army.mil) Date: Thu Apr 1 09:36:24 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Stahler's PI in the Annual Message-ID: <185c1bc185a017.185a017185c1bc@us.army.mil> I really think that the ASLRB II is more user friendly to the PI system devised by Jim Stahler ages ago. Was there much to be updated on the PI so it could be used with ASLRB II? Once you got past the A.3 and A.4, and still had your sanity, you were home free! ;-) Kent Battlin' Bastard from 'Bama ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Young Date: Thursday, April 1, 2004 9:26 pm Subject: Re: [ASLML] ASLSK vs Partrooper & PI > Once the Rulebook and BV are printed (soon apparently on the > ASLRB), that > transition will be possible. But regardless of whether they're > availableright now, I can't see how the $24 Starter Kit is a bad > way to start. If a > player finds it's not for them, they're not out very much, and > still have a > self-contained game to play if the mood ever hits them. If they do > get the > bug, then that initial $24 will be a drop in the bucket compared > to what > they'll pay to get into "real" ASL. > > Paratrooper was designed with the large crowd of SL players in > mind. That > crowd (mostly) no longer exists, having likely either already made the > transition to ASL long ago or aging out of the hobby. What still > exists are > some players still playing SL, some who tried it long ago and > decided not to > take the ASL plunge, and a huge flock of potential newbies who've > nevertried any of it. The Starter Kit exists for them and based on > comments on > Consimworld, a number of "rejected ASL long ago"-type players are > considering this option. In a way, the Starter Kit will serve the same > purpose of introducing ASL to these players that SL did for many > of us. > > Paratrooper was a transition method for those already familiar > with the > system. I think it was almost useless for someone with no prior > experience.Prior to the Starter Kit, the only effective way to > learn (from scratch) was > to have an existing player teach you, in which case you might as > well take > the full plunge into BV. I have to say that this may be the first > time I can > remember (at least in the last several years) someone defending > Paratrooperas an intro module to ASL. > > Peter "Self-taught in spite of all the above" Young > Yakima, WA > http://firstfire.blogspot.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Brian Youse" ; "ASL Mailing List" > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:52 AM > Subject: [ASLML] ASLSK vs Partrooper & PI > > > > Let's look at it from your point of view then. If I purchase > ASLSK and > learn the rules therein, what next? Can you sit down with an > opponent and > play any of the hundreds of published scenarios? Not unless that > personwants to teach you how to play. At some point folks are > going to have to > make that decision and invest the money if they want to play the whole > system. So why pay the additional $24? > > > > For most of us, we made the difficult transition from SL to ASL > with BV > and the ASLRB. Back then that was how much of an investment, $80? > Paratrooper came out to help coax those playing SL to ASL and in > itselfadded more rules as you progressed through the Paratrooper > scenarios. But > when we finished with the transition we were versed well enough in > the rules > to start playing any of the ASL scenarios. > > > > If ASLSK gets people interested in playing the full version of > ASL, great. > Congratulations. But what then? I really hope you all suceed, I > just hope > you have the business model in place to back up your ambitions. > > > > C. Kent Henson > > Battlin' Bastard from 'Bama > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Brian Youse > > Date: Thursday, April 1, 2004 10:02 am > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] MMP Stormtroopers-LONG > > > > > > As for the ASLRB reprint, I wouldn't look for it anytime soon. > > > I'm > > > > glad that some people will buy and play ASLSK but I still think > > > we had > > > > a Programed Instruction system in place that would have done the > > > job > > > > with Paratrooper and its Chapter K. > > > > > > Jim Stahler's article has been available on our website for some > > > time, > > > under the ASL Articles section. Here: > > > http://www.multimanpublishing.com/ASL/articles.php It has been > > > there > > > for quite some time. > > > > > > However, I am much more inclined to believe that a person is more > > > likely to take the ASL plunge on a $24 stand-alone product rather > > > than > > > the solution of buying the ASL rulebook ($80), Paratrooper ($30+), > > > several maps ($10 or $24 depending on how you buy them), and > > > downloading the PI off our website. > > > > > > $24 versus $120+ > > > > > > I can't even believe I have to point what certainly seems to be > > > obvious. > > > The only problem with the ASL Starter Kit is that we didn't do it > > > five > > > years ago. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From m_b_h at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 1 09:33:24 2004 From: m_b_h at sbcglobal.net (Michael Handiboe) Date: Thu Apr 1 09:36:41 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions References: <20040401161952.TDIT11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: <045601c4180f$6fc257c0$fb0110ac@computer> I tried hard to envision a snowball as having layers. None of my snowballs ever had no stinkin' "layers". A rock in the middle, perhaps ... :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Michael Handiboe" ; "'ASL Mailing List'" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions > The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full ASL rules wrap over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the transition, it's just added to what is already there. From cardboard.killer at verizon.net Thu Apr 1 10:00:58 2004 From: cardboard.killer at verizon.net (Brian W) Date: Thu Apr 1 10:03:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results In-Reply-To: <001601c41806$32038b60$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <000d01c41813$499b0d40$6401a8c0@NewDell> > Oh? You've been to one of Pete's tourneys then? I don't think so, but there are holes in my memory for big periods of time which would be reasonably explained by a week-long bender in another country. From gr27134 at charter.net Thu Apr 1 10:50:10 2004 From: gr27134 at charter.net (Tate Rogers) Date: Thu Apr 1 11:12:06 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions Message-ID: <200404011850.i31IoALL024785@mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net> I think that "onion" would have worked better than "snowball". Onions definitely have layers. Wouldn't smell as nice...well, unless you are using one of the infamous _yellow_ snowballs. And of course those _brown_ snowballs are right out! Down in South Alabama where I grew up, it never snows. Though we did have our own version of the "snowball fight"...the "cowpatty tussle"...believe you me...not a pretty sight!!! Later- Tater (One Mean Spud!) > > From: "Michael Handiboe" > Date: 2004/04/01 Thu AM 11:33:24 CST > To: "'ASL Mailing List'" > Subject: Re: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions > > I tried hard to envision a snowball as having layers. > None of my snowballs ever had no stinkin' "layers". > A rock in the middle, perhaps ... > > :-) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Michael Handiboe" ; "'ASL Mailing List'" > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:19 AM > Subject: Re: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions > > > > The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full ASL rules wrap > over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the transition, > it's just added to what is already there. > > > From geb3 at inter.net Thu Apr 1 16:06:35 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu Apr 1 16:00:42 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet In-Reply-To: <001d01c41809$4315f020$3611c80a@posh3> Message-ID: There is a counter sheet in HH. It consists of markers for building control, AFV cards, etc... - G -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]On Behalf Of Kenneth Knudsen Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:49 AM To: Aslml@asl-forums.net; Sam Belcher Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet But on the MMP website, it says that there's a countersheet in the HH box. Is that an error then? Kenneth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Belcher" To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the First Edition | Hedgerow Hell. | | Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. | | | | > -----Original Message----- | > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net | > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Michael Handiboe | > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM | > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net | > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | > | > | > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print | > or something? | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "Sam Belcher" | > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; | > | > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM | > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet | > | > | > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? | > > | > > There were only a few.... | > > | > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters | > > | > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble | > counters, | > > etc. | > > | > > Sam | > > | > > | > | > | | | From aslwynn at cogeco.ca Thu Apr 1 18:00:49 2004 From: aslwynn at cogeco.ca (Wynn) Date: Thu Apr 1 18:01:00 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet References: <002501c41808$d1e22400$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <004701c41856$51fce9c0$ae56e218@D56LBC31> Cruel, Sam, cruel. Wynn "Proud Owner of Deluxe Rubble from Hell on Wheels" Polnicky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Belcher" To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the First Edition > Hedgerow Hell. > > Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Michael Handiboe > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM > > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print > > or something? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sam Belcher" > > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM > > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? > > > > > > There were only a few.... > > > > > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters > > > > > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble > > counters, > > > etc. > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > From tmorin2454 at comcast.net Thu Apr 1 18:22:28 2004 From: tmorin2454 at comcast.net (tmorin2454@comcast.net) Date: Thu Apr 1 18:22:37 2004 Subject: [ASLML] errata for Dispatches from the Bunker DB041 Message-ID: <040220040222.12239.406CCE640009DE7A00002FCF2200734076FFCBCACBCD91968D9092@comcast.net> Tom, please make sure that this reply of mine also makes it to the Main Mailing List, Thanks again, Vic. In a message dated 4/1/2004 7:50:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, tmorin2454@comcast.net writes: To all Dispatches from the Bunker subscribers, The SAN for the U.S. in "The Killing Ground" was inadvertantly deleted from the scenario by the Publisher program, and we didn't catch the mistake. The U.S. should have a SAN:4. Our apologies to all of our subscribers, as we HATE when errata like this slips through. Anyways, hope you enjoy the scenario. regards, Tom Morin Vic Provost adds: Thanks Tom for posting this for me, I know that this has happened to us one other time in the past (Crisis on the Abucay Line when the OBA SSR got pushed out of its text box). Totally inadvertent, Tom was tweaking something else on the page and Publisher had a similar hic-up, blowing the SAN # right out of the set-up. This after 2 rounds of proofreading, and Tom was printing the final Master Copy of the scenario, so was not looking for something like this to happen. We'll be even more vigilant next issue, and hopefully the Microsoft gremlins won't screw us up again. Again, my apologies, your ASL Comrade, Vic Provost. From rln22 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 1 10:00:43 2004 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Beseler) Date: Thu Apr 1 19:16:58 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hulldown in VBM? Message-ID: Listers, Can a vehicle be hulldown, behind a wall, while in bypass? A4.34, in speaking of INFANTRY bypass, reads; "A wall or hedge in the target hex is not an obstacle to LOS even though the target may be in Bypass on the other side of that same target hex (although its TEM would apply if crossed by the LOS)." Does the fact that LOS traced to a CAFP would only 'come to', but not 'cross' a wall, mean that a wall (or hedge) is not considered when one targets an AFV in bypass? I am having trouble finding a rule or example that explains this. Please help. Yours, Beseler From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 20:08:04 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 20:08:10 2004 Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` In-Reply-To: <043f01c4180f$1377a240$fb0110ac@computer> Message-ID: <000601c41868$19894b30$647ba8c0@samb03> Guys I've been offered a job in Mexico City. Any ASL'ers down there? It's a big move, but its good money. I'll be moving down there after our tourney at Enfilade. (May 28-30 - see dicetower.com for details on the tourney). I'll be doing System Admin work supporting a couple of servers that send about 150 million emails a day. I sure hope there are players down there! Drop me a line. Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 20:10:52 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 20:10:58 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet In-Reply-To: <004701c41856$51fce9c0$ae56e218@D56LBC31> Message-ID: <000d01c41868$7d7547c0$647ba8c0@samb03> Yeah, this was a small April Fool's joke... Sorry. ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Wynn [mailto:aslwynn@cogeco.ca] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:01 PM > To: Sam Belcher; 'Michael Handiboe'; Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > Cruel, Sam, cruel. > > Wynn "Proud Owner of Deluxe Rubble from Hell on Wheels" Polnicky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Belcher" > To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:46 AM > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the > First Edition > > Hedgerow Hell. > > > > Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > > > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of > Michael Handiboe > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM > > > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > > > > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print > > > or something? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Sam Belcher" > > > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM > > > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > > > > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? > > > > > > > > There were only a few.... > > > > > > > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters > > > > > > > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble > > > counters, > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From kmonte at wideopenwest.com Thu Apr 1 20:16:05 2004 From: kmonte at wideopenwest.com (Kenn) Date: Thu Apr 1 20:15:58 2004 Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` In-Reply-To: <000601c41868$19894b30$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <200404020415.i324Fnf24250@pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com> Is that going to make you Spam Belcher? -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Sam Belcher Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:08 PM To: Aslml@asl-forums.net Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` Guys I've been offered a job in Mexico City. Any ASL'ers down there? It's a big move, but its good money. I'll be moving down there after our tourney at Enfilade. (May 28-30 - see dicetower.com for details on the tourney). I'll be doing System Admin work supporting a couple of servers that send about 150 million emails a day. I sure hope there are players down there! Drop me a line. Sam From sgtono at yahoo.com Thu Apr 1 20:22:00 2004 From: sgtono at yahoo.com (Keith Todd) Date: Thu Apr 1 20:22:07 2004 Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` In-Reply-To: <000601c41868$19894b30$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <20040402042200.85868.qmail@web20723.mail.yahoo.com> By my calendar it is still April 1st in the US NW so Sam is this the bigger April Fool's joke? Keith --- Sam Belcher wrote: > Guys > > I've been offered a job in Mexico City. Any ASL'ers > down there? > > It's a big move, but its good money. I'll be moving > down there after our > tourney at Enfilade. (May 28-30 - see dicetower.com > for details on the > tourney). > > I'll be doing System Admin work supporting a couple > of servers that send > about 150 million emails a day. > > I sure hope there are players down there! Drop me a > line. > > Sam > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From geb3 at inter.net Thu Apr 1 22:35:40 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Thu Apr 1 22:29:54 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet In-Reply-To: <000d01c41868$7d7547c0$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: Afraid I swallowed it, too. Watch yer back next year, Sam. - G -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]On Behalf Of Sam Belcher Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:11 PM To: 'Wynn'; 'Michael Handiboe'; Aslml@asl-forums.net Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet Yeah, this was a small April Fool's joke... Sorry. ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Wynn [mailto:aslwynn@cogeco.ca] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:01 PM > To: Sam Belcher; 'Michael Handiboe'; Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > Cruel, Sam, cruel. > > Wynn "Proud Owner of Deluxe Rubble from Hell on Wheels" Polnicky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Belcher" > To: "'Michael Handiboe'" ; > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 11:46 AM > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > Yeah, my mistake. The large counters only came with the > First Edition > > Hedgerow Hell. > > > > Sorry. Sometimes you can pick these up on ebay. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > > > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of > Michael Handiboe > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:33 AM > > > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > > > Subject: Re: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > > > > My HH/SoF never came with large counters ... an older print > > > or something? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Sam Belcher" > > > To: "'Kenneth Knudsen'" ; > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:25 AM > > > Subject: RE: [ASLML] Hedgerow Hell countersheet > > > > > > > > > > > Which counters are provided in the HH countersheet? > > > > > > > > There were only a few.... > > > > > > > > About a dozen "Whole in the Ice" counters > > > > > > > > And some really large (deluxe size) level counters, rubble > > > counters, > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 23:15:30 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 23:15:38 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Hulldown in VBM? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c41882$489f21a0$647ba8c0@samb03> > Can a vehicle be hulldown, behind a wall, while in bypass? > > > A4.34, in speaking of INFANTRY bypass, reads; "A wall or > hedge in the target hex is not an obstacle to LOS even > though the target may be in Bypass on the other side of > that same target hex (although its TEM would apply if > crossed by the LOS)." > > > Does the fact that LOS traced to a CAFP would only 'come to', > but not 'cross' a wall, mean that a wall (or hedge) is not > considered when one targets an AFV in bypass? > > I am having trouble finding a rule or example that > explains this. The wall extends all the way to the vertex of the hex - even if the artwork doesn't. And yes, you can be hull down behind the wall (apply the TEM of the wall) while in bypass. ' The wall doesn't _block_ LOS - in other words, its not an "obstacle" to LOS, but its TEM does apply. Make sense? Sam From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Thu Apr 1 23:28:21 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Thu Apr 1 23:28:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` In-Reply-To: <000601c41868$19894b30$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <000001c41884$1422ef40$647ba8c0@samb03> Ahem, I have about 10 emails in my inbox so far, but its almost midnight. Time to fess up. This is a hoax, ah... I mean an April Fools Joke. I will not be going to Mexico City to send Spam. :) Sam "Still need a job..." Belcher > -----Original Message----- > From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net > [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Sam Belcher > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:08 PM > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` > > > Guys > > I've been offered a job in Mexico City. Any ASL'ers down there? > > It's a big move, but its good money. I'll be moving down > there after our tourney at Enfilade. (May 28-30 - see > dicetower.com for details on the tourney). > > I'll be doing System Admin work supporting a couple of > servers that send about 150 million emails a day. > > I sure hope there are players down there! Drop me a line. > > Sam > > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Fri Apr 2 03:02:24 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Fri Apr 2 03:02:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Firefly mystery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:19:27 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >Somebody please point me in the right direction regarding WoA & FKaC Sherman >VC. I have a hand-written note to myself from an ASLML post that I believe >was from Perry (cannot find it anymore) saying that the Firefly VC ID "F" >counter mistakenly shows a BMG, but both my IIC & VC counters from WoA (also >Chap N images), as well as the new FKaC counters show no such error. What's >wrong with my memory? Or, does the problem turn up elsewhere. 'Twas I, not Perry, who pointed out this error. The FKAC counters are fine, the error was on the original WoA counter. If your WoA counter is fine, I can only presume that TAHGC must have fixed the countersheet in a subsequent printing. My counter definitely has the error (you're correct that it doesn't show up in the Ch. N depiction). I purchased WoA in 1989, IIRC, which was when it was released (at least, when it first appeared in Australia). ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From mail at cspringer.de Fri Apr 2 04:07:50 2004 From: mail at cspringer.de (Christian Springer) Date: Fri Apr 2 04:06:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Download VASL Message-ID: Hi, is there a way to download VASL with or without webstart to install it on a machine with no internet connectivity ? The archives on vasl.org seem to contain only older versions... thanks Christian From mark at 3rddaysolutions.com Fri Apr 2 04:52:11 2004 From: mark at 3rddaysolutions.com (Mark Robbins) Date: Fri Apr 2 04:52:17 2004 Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` In-Reply-To: <000601c41868$19894b30$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: <003201c418b1$5483d360$308427d8@thirdday> Don't drink the water ;-) This is a good one Spam. Opps I meant Sam ------------------------------------------------- "But it's just plain idolatry, when God can't have all of me ... lyrics by Jason Upton" "Revelation comes thru the impartation of information to get you 'in formation' Mark Robbins Messenger me at ThirdDayTribe@hotmail.com Family Website - http://personal.riverusers.com/~thirdday/ My Web/Graphic Design Co - http://www.3rdDaySolutions.com -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Sam Belcher Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 9:08 PM To: Aslml@asl-forums.net Subject: [ASLML] New Job - any ASLer's in Mexico City?` Guys I've been offered a job in Mexico City. Any ASL'ers down there? It's a big move, but its good money. I'll be moving down there after our tourney at Enfilade. (May 28-30 - see dicetower.com for details on the tourney). I'll be doing System Admin work supporting a couple of servers that send about 150 million emails a day. I sure hope there are players down there! Drop me a line. Sam From rjmosher at direcway.com Fri Apr 2 13:15:14 2004 From: rjmosher at direcway.com (ron mosher) Date: Fri Apr 2 13:15:44 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Download VASL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040402151441.01cf8f00@pop3.direcway.com> At 06:07 AM 4/2/2004, Christian Springer wrote: >Hi, > >is there a way to download VASL with or without webstart to install it on a >machine with no internet connectivity ? The archives on vasl.org seem to >contain only older versions... > >thanks >Christian Think you are stuck with the webstart thingee. ron from Lebanon, Mo; turn right at the "Pavement Ends" sign. From mountainview at westelcom.com Fri Apr 2 15:50:38 2004 From: mountainview at westelcom.com (Mountain View Cottage) Date: Fri Apr 2 15:51:10 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Fw: PERRY-SEZ: A to Q on CE DRM/Height Advantage/Indirect-Fire Message-ID: <005401c4190d$4e073160$058e6b0c@NewhpGeorge> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 5:32 PM Subject: A to Q on CE DRM/Height Advantage/Indirect-Fire > > > > >Subject: CE DRM/Height Advantage/Indirect-Fire > > > > > > > >Cut/Pasted from Romanowski's Site: > > > > > > > >- D5.311: Is the Inherent Crew of a BU OT > > > >- AFV which is hit by (non-Air Burst) > > > >- Indirect Fire Vulnerable? > > > >- > > > >- No. > > > > > > > >Is it safe to say this Perry-Sez effectively precludes > > > >Indirect-Fire from being able to reduce CE DRM > > > >due (solely) to Height Advantage? > > > > > > > > No. HA can reduce CE DRM for both direct and indirect fire -- there is no limitation in either D5.311 or D6.61. (The previous answer should be "Not automatically.".) > > > > > > > > > > > > >In other words, if a MTR at Level 4 fires at a > > > >Carrier (or the above mentioned BU OT AFV, > > > >or even a CE OT AFV) at Level 0 and the > > > >Range = 3, 2, or 1 ("Height Advantage" otherwise > > > >capable of reducing a CE DRM), is the the > > > >Carrier (or BU OT AFV / CE OT AFV) > > > >treated as Unarmored for the attack vs. *it* > > > >(the Vehicle itself, be it Carrier / CE OT AFV / > > > >BU OT AFV). > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > > >In short, can Indirect-Fire reduce CE DRM > > > >if it has Height Advantage over an OT AFV? > > > > > Yes, given the right range. > > Sorry for the delay. NP > ....Perry > MMP Thanks, but as you might expect, I don't like it. I'll agree that's what the rules "say", and your ruling is in line with the rules text, but I think it's a "hole", and an oversight. Theoretically, *all* Indirect Fire should get "Height Advantage" due to the nature of the "incoming fire" (from above). It doesn't really have anything to do with LOS/LOF: Consider this: 2 separate MTRs, separately Spotted. Neither MTR has LOS to the Level 0 Ht target. Both are @ Range = 2 (to the target). One is @ Level 4, and therefore qualifies for HA CE DRM Reduction. The other is @ Level 2, and therefore doesn't qualify for HA. It makes no sense to me that the Level 4 MTR gets a CE DRM Reduction (and the Ht itself gets attacked as a softie) solely due to the fact that its rounds are leaving the ground, flying almost straight up into the air and coming almost straight down on the target, from a higher "starting point" than the Level 2 MTR. Both MTRs *LOF* (round trajectory) are nearly, if not in the end almost exactly, indentical, but it's the Level 4 MTR's "higher altititude" that grants the boon, nothing at all to do with actual LOS/LOF. Concurrently, assuming an LOS shot, how does being able to see a candy wrapper on an HT's deck make it any easier to drop a round directly into the Ht? Your ruling assumes HA will *automatically* grant this, but I doubt the chance of that happening by throwing rounds up in the air and hoping they come down near the target (much less actually *in* the target) is any greater with "HA" than if Mortaring from same-level. I can see the benefit/advantage if I'm throwing MG bullets at it - it's obvious - the protective siding has been compromised to my direct fire LOS/LOF, *directly into* it. Lastly, note that *target* AFV HA is clearly NA to Indirect Fire. That make sense - it doesn't matter that I can only see the Turret and/or Superstructure of that Pz IV when I shoot at it with my MTR. The rounds are coming in from above, and can (and do) easily explode right next to the treads and/or land directly onto the hull decking. Nay, I believe the intent of HA & CE Reduction was meant for Direct Fire LOS/LOF only. Again I think this is supported by the C1.55 -1 DRM for OT when dealing with Indirect Fire vs. an AFV. Being OT, it's more vulnerable to Indirect Fire, so you get a -1, but it's still an AFV. "Dropping one in" is more along the lines of a CH, and/or a good low effects DR, combined with that -1. It's rare, but it happens. To automatically grant interior deck hits just becuase the rounds are leaving the ground from a nearby hill or rooftop (and even without the firing weapon having LOS!) is a bit hokey. Whilst awaiting your answer I do recollect (as I mentioned in the earlier thread) having this come up before, and I believe we played it with the advantage, since that's what the rules "allow". I can't, however, recall the outcome. (It was on VASL, a long time ago, and I was an observer of someone else's game.) I will have no problem playing it this way as the Ht owner, but I wil not be employing it as the MTR owner. Christopher Fleury Sgt. Meikle's Bunker Mountain View Cottage Lewis, NY USS Iowa; BB-61 Camp Dudley #12557 From morrisgj at mscd.edu Fri Apr 2 18:05:13 2004 From: morrisgj at mscd.edu (morrisgj@mscd.edu) Date: Fri Apr 2 18:07:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Night Question Message-ID: <2bacd26da0.26da02bacd@mscd.edu> Hello All: Situation: Night scenario, with NVR = 3. Allied units fire off starshell that inadvertantly places them within the illumination zone. Enemy Axis unit uses non-AM to first enter adjacent (non-illuminated) hex, then continue and enter the concealed Allied unit's hex for the concealment bump dance. Naturally the Axis unit loses "?" status, as does one (or more) Allied units. Likewise, the Axis unit gets bumped back to the non-illuminated adjacent hex it had just moved from. Can the Allied player now D1F vs. the Axis unit in the non-illuminated adjacent hex? If yes, is the D1F halved as Area Fire (aside from being doubled for PBF)? Thanks in advance, Gerry From fred at sdccu.net Fri Apr 2 20:59:35 2004 From: fred at sdccu.net (Fred Timm) Date: Fri Apr 2 21:16:19 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Night Question In-Reply-To: <2bacd26da0.26da02bacd@mscd.edu> References: <2bacd26da0.26da02bacd@mscd.edu> Message-ID: <406E44B7.7000701@sdccu.net> No, you can not fire from an illuminated location to an ADJACENT non-illuminated location unless the other location has gunflashes. Fred morrisgj@mscd.edu wrote: > Hello All: > > Situation: > Night scenario, with NVR = 3. > Allied units fire off starshell that inadvertantly places them within > the illumination zone. Enemy Axis unit uses non-AM to first enter > adjacent (non-illuminated) hex, then continue and enter the concealed > Allied unit's hex for the concealment bump dance. Naturally the Axis > unit loses "?" status, as does one (or more) Allied units. Likewise, > the Axis unit gets bumped back to the non-illuminated adjacent hex it > had just moved from. > > Can the Allied player now D1F vs. the Axis unit > in the non-illuminated adjacent hex? If yes, is the D1F halved as Area > Fire (aside from being doubled for PBF)? > > Thanks in advance, > > Gerry > > > > From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Apr 3 00:03:58 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat Apr 3 00:04:31 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Off-Topic: Game search Message-ID: Nothing to do with ASL, but we're all boardgamers here: I'm looking for a copy of the Gamers "This Hallowed Ground", which has been out of print for a few years now. If anyone can direct me to a game store that still has stock (and will deal with a customer in Australia), or if you can otherwise assist me, I'd love to hear from you. No, E-Bay is not an option. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Joel, you magnificent bastard! I read your menu!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From tmorin2454 at comcast.net Sat Apr 3 06:31:08 2004 From: tmorin2454 at comcast.net (tmorin2454@comcast.net) Date: Sat Apr 3 06:31:52 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Looking for Laurent Cunin(fwd) Message-ID: <040320041431.7393.406ECAAC00062A1E00001CE12200734830FFCBCACBCD91968D9092@comcast.net> Fowarded for Carl Nogueira...... ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: Chnogueira@aol.com To: yasl@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Yasl] RE: Favor Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 02:35:37 EST Guys, Could someone with access to the ASLML, please ask if a Laurent Cunnin could get in touch with me, at my AOL address? That address is of course the chnogueira@aol.com Thanks, Carl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Come to Nor'easter 2004, March 19th-21st! For more details visit: http://asl.yankeegamers.org Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yasl/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: yasl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From janked at tampabay.rr.com Sat Apr 3 06:48:59 2004 From: janked at tampabay.rr.com (Wes Neal) Date: Sat Apr 3 06:49:23 2004 Subject: [ASLML] VASL 4.1 RB board problem Message-ID: <003401c4198a$cca5b690$6401a8c0@BigDELL> Not sure what is happening but when I load a log for a RB or do a new scenario and use the RB map, but it is getting stretched to weird proportions. I have the newest RB map from www.vasl.org and the newest 4.1.2 version of VASL so I am not sure what is going on. Any ideas? Thanks Wes From janked at tampabay.rr.com Sat Apr 3 06:48:59 2004 From: janked at tampabay.rr.com (Wes Neal) Date: Sat Apr 3 06:49:25 2004 Subject: [ASLML] VASL 4.1 RB board problem Message-ID: <003401c4198a$cca5b690$6401a8c0@BigDELL> Not sure what is happening but when I load a log for a RB or do a new scenario and use the RB map, but it is getting stretched to weird proportions. I have the newest RB map from www.vasl.org and the newest 4.1.2 version of VASL so I am not sure what is going on. Any ideas? Thanks Wes From swfancher at mindspring.com Sat Apr 3 06:20:56 2004 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Sat Apr 3 07:03:31 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Looking for Laurent Cunin Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040403091905.01e3f4c8@mindspring.com> Laurent Cunin - haven't seen you on the list for a while, but if you are lurking out there, Carl Nogueira would like you to contact him directly at: chnogueira@aol.com Others - please pardon the interruption. From swfancher at mindspring.com Sat Apr 3 06:20:56 2004 From: swfancher at mindspring.com (Seth W Fancher) Date: Sat Apr 3 07:03:33 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Looking for Laurent Cunin Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040403091905.01e3f4c8@mindspring.com> Laurent Cunin - haven't seen you on the list for a while, but if you are lurking out there, Carl Nogueira would like you to contact him directly at: chnogueira@aol.com Others - please pardon the interruption. From tball at cc.UManitoba.CA Sat Apr 3 07:27:44 2004 From: tball at cc.UManitoba.CA (Blake Ball) Date: Sat Apr 3 07:28:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] 2004 CASLO 6 Month Warning! Message-ID: <000001c41990$373f3210$fb114d18@terrygrfcpjets> Hey Listeroonies..... This is just a heads-up that the Canadian ASL Open is fast approaching. The Canadian ASL Open: CASLO 2004 Date : September 17th to 19th 2004 Place: The Viscount Gort Hotel, Winnipeg, Manitoba Format: Five rounds starting at 1:00 PM Friday, Ending at 3 PM Sunday (2 Fri, 2 Sat, 1 Sun) Swiss Style seeding, using the Chicago point system to determine a winner. Last years Tournament had 25 attendees including the "best" of the riff-raff that make up the Canadian ASL Scene. Those of you who have been to prior CASLO's know the fun and great times that occur. Don't forget the extra's: T-Shirts, Coffee Mugs, and of course the (in)famous never-ending CASLO Beer Mugs. A meet and greet will be held the Thursday eve prior to the tourney for the early-birds just to get warmed up for all the dice rolling and gunnin' to follow. Registration info and scenario lists coming soon! For further info see the CASLO Website (link on top left) http://members.shaw.ca/casla/ Or contact any of the friendly tournament staff: Blake Ball tball@cc.umanitoba.ca Jim McLeod jmmcleod@mb.sympatico.ca Bill Bird wbird10@shaw.ca Blake From geb3 at inter.net Sat Apr 3 08:05:44 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Sat Apr 3 08:00:13 2004 Subject: [ASLML] UPDATE: Starter Kit Product Review In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I'm back from Kinko's this afternoon and the cardstock mapsheets laminated as well as I expected they would. Although nearly as light as unmounted maps, they are much sturdier and don't curl or flop around. From both cost and quality perspectives, I think this is the gamer's best choice for a board surface. Another interesting touch that I forgot to mention the other day is the use of reverse typeface for the hex grid coordinates printed on dark areas, making them much more legible. Nice move. I should also note that some good people pointed out sources in which Friedrich von Paulus' name had been shortened to "Paulus." Surprisingly, one of the books was within arm's reach on my own shelf, and yet this usage has never registered. It's amazing the little blanks the mind fills in for you automatically. Other errata from the product review: - Replace the word "Show" with "ASLOK" in the section about the countersheet. Enjoy your Saturday, Europe and North America. I've gotta catch 40 winks. George Bates Yokohama, Japan Now in progress: J53 "Setting The Stage", German vs. David Olie SASL M13 "Recon", Free French vs. German ENEMY From mlb705 at juno.com Sat Apr 3 12:06:58 2004 From: mlb705 at juno.com (Mark L Brooks) Date: Sat Apr 3 12:04:57 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit Message-ID: <20040403.140700.-288589.1.mlb705@juno.com> Will there be a part 2 to the starter kit to introduce additional aspects of ASL? Mark From spinny at spinland.biz Sat Apr 3 12:09:48 2004 From: spinny at spinland.biz (Mark Dyson) Date: Sat Apr 3 12:10:20 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit References: <20040403.140700.-288589.1.mlb705@juno.com> Message-ID: <000401c419b7$9dff4b80$6501a8c0@ziphead> >From what I understand there'll be a part 2 introducing Ordnance, and a part 3 introducing Vehicles -- predicated on the success of #1. From the sales reports methinks we can count on seeing them both. :-) Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark L Brooks" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [ASLML] ASL Starter Kit > Will there be a part 2 to the starter kit to introduce additional aspects > of ASL? > > Mark > > > > From singleman5 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 2 22:34:38 2004 From: singleman5 at hotmail.com (David) Date: Sat Apr 3 16:34:32 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Re: ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions References: <20040401161952.TDIT11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net> Message-ID: wrote in message news:20040401161952.TDIT11989.out004.verizon.net@outgoing.verizon.net... > The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full ASL rules wrap over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the transition, it's just added to what is already there. It seems to me the control rules are changed in the SK so that you only control what you physically occupy and not what you move thru, right? From rln22 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 3 10:53:21 2004 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Beseler) Date: Sat Apr 3 16:34:34 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Hulldown in VBM? References: <001401c41882$489f21a0$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: Sam Belcher writes: > > > Can a vehicle be hulldown, behind a wall, while in bypass? > > > The wall extends all the way to the vertex of the hex - even if the artwork > doesn't. And yes, you can be hull down behind the wall (apply the TEM of the > wall) while in bypass. ' > > The wall doesn't _block_ LOS - in other words, its not an "obstacle" to LOS, > but its TEM does apply. > > Make sense? > > Sam > > > Sam, It makes some 'common sense', but makes no sense with regard to how to apply the rules. eg: Facing the enemy, a tank moves into bp up alongside the left side of a building. A wall is infront of the tank, and extends to the vertex just off its left front fender. The hexside parralleling the Left side of the tank is wide open. At what point do we judge that shots coming from the front, front left, then directly from the left, 'cross' the wall vertex? It seems awfully arbitrary, as again, shots coming from the left side (and indeed the rear) are still traced to the same 'walled' vertex in front of the bypassing vehicle. Is there any rule that explicitly states how to use a wall for a vehicle in bp? Beseler. From rln22 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 3 11:08:39 2004 From: rln22 at yahoo.com (Beseler) Date: Sat Apr 3 16:34:35 2004 Subject: [ASLML] CC Infiltration: Perry hath spoken... Message-ID: >Thus, my three closely related questions: (1) If, in a non-ambush >situation, the ATTACKER rolls an original 2, if he chooses to withdraw all >units, must he do so immediately, thus leaving the enemy unscathed? (2) If >he elects to stay, in order to effect the usually lethal result, must he >suffer an attack from the eliminated DEFENDER, as per normally simultaneous >CC? (3) If the ATTACKER chose to \'resolve\' the original 2 as a CC attack, >has he lost the option of withdrawing (save a \'12\' rolled by the >DEFENDER)? > 1) No. 2) Not if he Withdraws first. 3) No. ....Perry MMP Two last comments: as Probst pointed out, an important way in which infiltration differs from an ambush attack is the 'NECESSITY' of withdrawal, for, if you don't, you get attacked! Last but not least, as I believe Bakkan asked, in A18.12, the line 'Unless one or both sides Withdraw due to Infiltration'. How can both sides withdraw due to infiltration? Just couldn't come up with the die rolls that would make it possible. Sure you can somehow though... Yours, Beseler From pete at vftt.co.uk Sat Apr 3 15:12:20 2004 From: pete at vftt.co.uk (Pete Phillipps) Date: Sat Apr 3 16:34:36 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL VFTT54 Out Now Message-ID: <000001c419d1$1e645e50$c34bfea9@pete700> Hi Everyone, A bit late, but the new VFTT is now available from the VFTT web site at www.vftt.co.uk/vftt54.pdf. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Sat Apr 3 17:08:55 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Sat Apr 3 17:09:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Re: ASL Starter Kit - First Impressions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c419e1$682afc00$647ba8c0@samb03> > wrote in message > > > > The ASLSK only provides the very basic rules, and the full > ASL rules > > wrap > over them like layers of a snowball. Nothing changes in the > transition, it's just added to what is already there. David wrote: > It seems to me the control rules are changed in the SK so > that you only control what you physically occupy and not what > you move thru, right? No, the definition of "Control" in the starter kit is "A Good Order Infantry MMC gains control of the hex or building it occupies without the presence of an enemy unit..." There isn't any "Mopping Up" in the starter kit, but you gain control just like ASL. What may not be obvious is that once you gain control, you retain it when you leave the building. Just like ASL. BTW, when you "move through" a building, you are physically occupying it. What is perhaps unclear is that you control the entire building by being the only occupant - and assuming you are a good order MMC infantry unit. From bprobst at netspace.net.au Sat Apr 3 17:38:20 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Sat Apr 3 17:38:58 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Hulldown in VBM? In-Reply-To: References: <001401c41882$489f21a0$647ba8c0@samb03> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:53:21 +0000 (UTC), Beseler wrote: >It makes some 'common sense', but makes no sense with regard to how to apply >the rules. Really? It's always seemed very straight-forward to me. >eg: Facing the enemy, a tank moves into bp up alongside the left side of a >building. > A wall is infront of the tank, and extends to the vertex just off its left front > fender. The hexside parralleling the Left side of the tank is wide open. > At what point do we judge that >shots coming >from the front, front left, then directly from the left, 'cross' the wall vertex? You'll need to be a lot more precise than that if you want meaningful assistance. Please quote a couple of actual hex coordinates. The general answer, however, is if the LOS crosses the wall, then it crosses the wall. If it crosses the vertex, then it still crosses the wall (because the wall always extends to the vertex). >Is there any rule that explicitly states how to use a wall for a vehicle in bp? That would be B9.2 et al (i.e., the fact that the vehicle is in bypass is pretty much irrelevant; the wall rules work exactly the same). You may find the following Perry Sez of assistance: *** > Rule:B9.1 > Question:B9.1 "The thick terrain depiction, as well as the hexside itself >(inclusive of vertices), represents the wall/hedge and will affect any LOS >through it ...." > > Is it correct to conclude that *any* fire at a hedge/wall vertex coming >from *outside that hex* (i.e., crossing no other hexside of that hex) must >"cross the wall", no matter what angle it's coming from, even if the >hedge/wall only exists along one hexside of the three meeting at that >vertex? > > (This is significant when attacking a bypassing unit where there is a >hedge/wall at that vertex, assuming that the bypassing unit would otherwise >qualify for Wall Advantage.) I think I am answering your question when I say: For units bypassing a wall/hedge hexside, that wall/hedge TEM would only apply if the LOS traced to the target vertex passes through a hex that shares that wall/hedge hexside with the target hex. ....Perry MMP *** ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ziggy had Garfield neutered? Now that's funny!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From sambelcher at cablespeed.com Sat Apr 3 17:46:34 2004 From: sambelcher at cablespeed.com (Sam Belcher) Date: Sat Apr 3 17:47:06 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: Hulldown in VBM? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c419e6$a9ae4740$647ba8c0@samb03> Beseler writes: > eg: Facing the enemy, a tank moves into bp up alongside the > left side of a > building. > A wall is infront of the tank, and extends to the vertex > just off its left front fender. The hexside parralleling > the Left side of the tank is wide open. At what point do we > judge that > shots coming > from the front, front left, then directly from the left, > 'cross' the wall vertex? Lets take a specific hex. Look at 3T3. Assume an AFV in T3 in bypass along the T3/S3 hexside. (There is a wall on the T2/T3 hexside.) The tank in 3T3 would be hull down to fire from an enemy AFV in bypass in 3T1 on the T1/U2 hexside. In this case, the LOS is traced exactly through the end of the wall. Per the rules, the wall extends to the end of the hexside and includes fire traced right down the hexside..... The tank would be hull down to fire coming from U2. The fire crosses the wall hexside that the tank is claiming Wall Advantage on... But the tank in 3T3 would not be hull down to fire from S1 or T1. Even though the LOS is traced to the vertex at S3/T3/T2 the fire is coming from "outside" the wall - i.e. not across the T2/T3 wall. This is how I understand it, I was unable to find a specific example in the rules that spells it out - it may be there, but I was not able to find it. Sam From geb3 at inter.net Sun Apr 4 08:43:42 2004 From: geb3 at inter.net (George Bates) Date: Sun Apr 4 08:38:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] AARs: AP12 "Cream of the Crop" & T16 "Strayer's Strays" (long) Message-ID: Spilt a double-header with Chang Dong-Il two weeks ago Saturday. Here's how it all went down. AP12 "Cream of the Crop" This is perhaps the sloppiest game I have played since picking up ASL again about four years ago. Saying this does not take away from Dong-Il's strong play. He did everything the Russian needs to do to win. Here's a summary of lessons learned as the German. VC are control of majority of building hexes (all wood, L0) in the board 46 town. German has 3 choices of approach for attack; through a mix of orchard, grain fields and scattered woods on the left, over fairly open ground in the center, or up the woods road on board 42 to strike at the right flank. Dong-Il spread his forces pretty evenly and in depth across the center, with an outpost contingent in the board 42 church on the right. I think everybody in his setup was eligible for concealment at start. The KV was off alone on the left in a board 42 wheatfield. I choose to send most of my force up the center right, using the bits of grain and the StuGs as cover to approach the board 46 outbuildings and the church and use them as stepping stones into the village. I positioned about 4 squads, an LMG the 8-1 and an 8-0 adjacent to the board 42 woods road with the idea of double-timing unhindered deep into the Russian left rear, there linking up with units coming out of the churchyard and perhaps cutting some rout paths. Probably this was not a bad idea, although Dong-Il later advocated leaving at least a token force on the left to keep the Soviets nervous about me rushing in and grabbing unattended locations on that flank. The problem is, I wasn't paying attention to the details and thinking about what I'd need to do when I got where I was going. Somehow, I managed to overlook the 50mm MTR when pulling my OB. This was badly needed FP, and with 3RoF, almost a guaranteed CH at some time during the game. I don't know how I did this, MTRs are my favorite weapon. On top of that, the ATR should have gone with the group up the woods road. I thought it would be useful immobilizing the KV, but of course I hadn't realized that this was impossible. On the other hand, it could have shredded T60s quite nicely, and since the team heading up the right flank was going to reach position on Turn 3, it was stupid not to give them some AT capability. Adding a StuG to that group would have been smart, too. The attack got off on the right foot as I pushed into the churchyard and Dong-Il retreated from it. I also got a foothold in the forward outbuildings with the help of liberal smoke from the StuGs, but things went very badly from there. The KV chugged over from board 43 to confront the StuGs, and as I've already noted we missed the fact that the German is not eligible for HEAT until almost a year later. This led to an attempt to engage the Russian beast. The AGs danced around the KV, bopping in for BFF shots and trying for deliberate immobilization, then using motion attempts and sDs to try and stay out of his sights. By midgame, all I had to show for this was one burning wreck and another StuG out of AP. People, do not let yourselves be misled by the scenario prelude and aftermath!!! The proper approach to ridding yourself of the heavy Ivan is to have a StuG smoke his hex (either PFPh or a sD7 drive-thru) and rush him with a couple squads (use 468s to better pass the PAATC; maybe add a leader to make it a surer kill). By T4 I was definitely losing momentum. The StuGs split up to hunt more lightly armored targets and the one the KV followed eventually managed an immobilization shot, but could not escape the 76mm AP shells as it attempted a smoky getaway and gave up the ghost. My troops had linked up on the right but were largely pinned down now that the T60s had arrived. Worse, casualties were increasing far too quickly, especially in the center. Dong-Il was playing a smart game of skulk and defensive fire, doing a good job of rotating unconcealed units out and newly concealed units in. His DFF shots were picking up K/# results with nagging frequency. At first I my attacks were also yielding casualties, but when I advanced into CC with a pinned squad, didn't get ambush and then got wiped out (aaaaarrrrggghh!), I fell way behind him with 3.5 squads out of the game and no flanking position to show for it. My remaining StuG used ESB to get behind his T60 platoon and take out two of the little pests, but because it was immobilized it too was lost in CC. With losses too high to accomplish the mission, I conceded at the end of T6(G). This is a great early war combined arms simulation. I want another shot at it as the Germans just to get all these things right, but it is clearly an equal challenge for both sides and I'd be happy in the Soviet seat, too. T16 "Strayer's Strays" Dong-Il and I had another 3 hours free, so I evened my record against him with this quickie. This is an old General SL scenario converted to ASL in the tournament series that includes "Gavin Take" and numerous other light classics. It also would make a great ASL SK scenario except for the dmMMG, German OB "?" and lack of L1 and L2 buildings. To allow Grasshopper to join in the fun using the rules he knows, give the US an assembled MMG, but forbid them to double-time on T1, and give the squareheads an 8-1 & LMG. Restricting the area in play to the A - Z hexrows might also be in order. This is the swiftly-wielded, elite American paratrooper hot knife against soft, low-grade German butter. However, the US gets just 4 turns to get at least 12VP across the 10 hexes of the board 6 manor house grounds. That's 6 of his 8 squads, with 3 more VP worth of leaders. Since the US will be able to concentrate his firepower at a single entry point to force his way through, as the German I understood that I could guarantee myself a loss with a bad setup. Most of this AAR will focus on that problem. A couple of obvious things first. A 467 each in N5L2 & M6L2 can cover nearly the entire board and deny a lot of open ground. The next to worthless conscripts are more useful in their role of speedbumps in when in HS form. Better to be fanned-out if you only have 3MF, so the pre-game German deployments created four 236 blockers to cover more ground and hopefully delay US units until the spread-out defense can collapse on the paras' point of attack. Although the German doesn't have too much ground to give, it doesn't pay to set up any nearer than hexes numbered 7, or the wicked US player will simply run around you, fill you full of nassssty assault fire and capture you when you rout, thus neatly solving his exit VP problem. The only exception might be K8 at the back of the 3-hex building to keep the paras honest. One other little German advantage that I pretty much spaced was their inherent SW. Not a single LMG to be found in this bunch of re-treads, but get a dr of 1 or 2 and you can put a rocket through the window of any building the Amis want to hide in or make them feel less safe behind a wall. Even the foreign "Freiwilliger" and old men & boys of the Volksies can use these babies w/o penalty. Just be sure you fire your IFP first, because a PF check dr of 6 will pin you. Always nice to have options. With these things in mind I dropped a 447 in the woods line in front of the grain on the far left, and a 467 at the head of the rear string of woods on the left side of the road to cover what N5L2 couldn't reach. Another 447 went behind the wall at the end of the orchard to supplement coverage on the far right. I scattered the remaining units to cover lines of approach between, trying to create some depth and interlocking fields of fire. Probably the one thing I could have done better was to create a "mobile reserve" that would be located in the center rear and rushed to the point of attacked. Dong-Il's post-game recommendation was a 467 & leader around T3 and a 447 & leader near N3. I think he's right. As it was, with a bit of luck my positioning was good enough to delay the paras and pull out a victory. Dong-Il picked the enclosed orchard which dominates the German right as his crossing point, which is where I would have gone, too, since it cuts FFMO and provides hindrances against FFNAM at the cost of only 1 MF per hex. In retrospect, I was actually a little light on my right side because of the two 467s I had invested in the manor house. Fortunately, there were no big holes torn in my line in T1(A), and I kept concealment except for one brokie who routed to the K4 outbuilding near a leader I hoped could get him up in time for the next US rush. My half of the first turn had everything in the orchard slowly dropping back to the rear wall to organize a defense line. Probably most of the units on the far left would not make it into play, but nevertheless I rushed them all pell-mell toward the back side of the manor house. A few units center forward slowly advanced to good DFF positions on the US right flank. The game was decided in T2(A). First, Dong-Il pushed his HSs into me to strip concealment from my 447, dummy stack and 236 in the orchard and along the wall . I held fire to see where the squads were going, but my first shots failed to yield results. Then Dong-Il got greedy. He walked two 747s and an 8-1 out of the J8 building into the LoS of a concealed 447 on the hedge in front of the manor house. These Volksgrenadiers dropped their camo and put down a wicked 4FP+0 shot that mortally wounded the 8-1 when Dong-Il boxed the MC. 4 DRs later and the two squads were back in J8, upside down and squealing under a blue and white counter. 6VP stopped in their tracks, 2 permanently. I felt better after having suffered through an uncanny number of twos, threes and fours on DFF shots in the previous game. Dong-Il's luck did not get better in CC. He hopped a number of HSs into both the 447 and 236 hexes but failed to get kills. When we got around to the T2(G) rally phase and his 8-0 failed to raise either pile of quivering paratrooper jelly, Dong-Il looked at the number of VP he had tied-up, then counted the hexes to where my cavalry would be (not just toward the exits, but also those who could advance in to the J8 building) at the end of the turn, decided his chances had slipped away and threw in the towel. I imagine that a lot of playings of this scenario never make it to the final turn (there are only four) because one side or the other makes a mistake from which it is impossible to recover. Some might say there's too much riding on a single roll of the dice, but my feeling is that in a game like this you want to minimize the number of times you have to leave things to chance, and when you do venture to risk something make sure the odds are heavily in your favor. Like golf or tennis, if you want to drink for free afterward, make fewer errors than your opponent does. Well, I hope this generates some list activity. Been far too little traffic the past several days and some of that was less than grown-up. Look forward to seeing what happens after you guys in later time zones get done with coffee and the funny papers. Good night! George Bates Yokohama, Japan Now in progress: J53 "Setting The Stage", German vs. David Olie SASL M13 "Recon", Free French vs. German ENEMY From john_provan at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 4 07:37:00 2004 From: john_provan at sbcglobal.net (John Provan) Date: Sun Apr 4 10:22:59 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Michael Pierzchala Message-ID: <20040404143700.13653.qmail@web80301.mail.yahoo.com> Can you report in - trying to get you in contact with your next opponent. John Provan From belisarius at dsl.pipex.com Sun Apr 4 10:49:55 2004 From: belisarius at dsl.pipex.com (Andy McMaster) Date: Sun Apr 4 10:50:33 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Test Message-ID: <200404041849.55403.belisarius@dsl.pipex.com> Please ignore - just trying out how to post! Cheers Andy -- "Do not despise the snake for having no horns for who is to say it will not become a dragon" From belisarius at dsl.pipex.com Sun Apr 4 10:43:55 2004 From: belisarius at dsl.pipex.com (Andy McMaster) Date: Sun Apr 4 10:51:01 2004 Subject: [ASLML] TEST Message-ID: Please ignore. Trying to work out how to post! Andy -- "Do not despise the snake for having no horns for who is to say it will not become a dragon" From janusz.maxe at unf.se Mon Apr 5 02:16:16 2004 From: janusz.maxe at unf.se (Janusz Maxe) Date: Mon Apr 5 02:20:33 2004 Subject: SV: [ASLML] AARs: AP12 "Cream of the Crop" & T16 "Strayer's Strays"(long) Message-ID: <5A75A637377A4249B83ACA0BC0510B5D33B57D@sesob03.sobernet.net> > The AGs danced around the KV, > bopping in for BFF > shots and trying for deliberate immobilization, then using > motion attempts > and sDs to try and stay out of his sights. Nice AAR, George. Easy to read and to follow. BTW, you can't use motion attempts vs an enemy unit that starts the MPh in your LOS. Must be a new unit entering LOS, but infantry will do nicely, of course Janusz From bprobst at netspace.net.au Mon Apr 5 02:39:20 2004 From: bprobst at netspace.net.au (Bruce Probst) Date: Mon Apr 5 02:40:21 2004 Subject: [ASLML] AARs: AP12 "Cream of the Crop" & T16 "Strayer's Strays" (long) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41a270popu15gpdsc9cersa9qd7p57tubr@4ax.com> On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 00:43:42 +0900, "George Bates" wrote: >One other little German advantage that I pretty much spaced was their >inherent SW. Not a single LMG to be found in this bunch of re-treads, but >get a dr of 1 or 2 and you can put a rocket through the window of any >building the Amis want to hide in or make them feel less safe behind a wall. >Even the foreign "Freiwilliger" and old men & boys of the Volksies can use >these babies w/o penalty. Just be sure you fire your IFP first, because a >PF check dr of 6 will pin you. Always nice to have options. Of course, the catch with firing your IFP first is that you might cower, and thus lose your PF option altogether. Which is worse? On a similar note, too many people forget that their US squads can lob WP with relative ease, making them more dangerous than might be expected if they get up close. (Other nationalities have WP grenades too, but only the US have them in decent quantities.) I've found these to be particularly useful when fighting through bocage. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Probst bprobst@netspace.net.au Melbourne, Australia MSTie #72759 "Ziggy had Garfield neutered? Now that's funny!" ASL FAQ http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/ASLFAQ From doralin at hf.rim.or.jp Mon Apr 5 03:19:58 2004 From: doralin at hf.rim.or.jp (dora) Date: Mon Apr 5 03:24:40 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: AARs: AP12 "Cream of the Crop" & T16 "Strayer's Strays" (long) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <407132CE.9020708@hf.rim.or.jp> George Bates wrote: > Somehow, I managed to overlook the 50mm >MTR when pulling my OB. This was badly needed FP, and with 3RoF, almost a >guaranteed CH at some time during the game. I don't know how I did this, >MTRs are my favorite weapon. > Yes, sure, George, I was seriously guessing where your MTR was until you found it on your scenario card's OB area. >The game was decided in T2(A). First, Dong-Il pushed his HSs into me to >strip concealment from my 447, dummy stack and 236 in the orchard and along >the wall . I held fire to see where the squads were going, but my first >shots failed to yield results. Then Dong-Il got greedy. He walked two 747s >and an 8-1 out of the J8 building into the LoS of a concealed 447 on the >hedge in front of the manor house. These Volksgrenadiers dropped their camo >and put down a wicked 4FP+0 shot that mortally wounded the 8-1 when Dong-Il >boxed the MC. 4 DRs later and the two squads were back in J8, upside down >and squealing under a blue and white counter. 6VP stopped in their tracks, >2 permanently. I felt better after having suffered through an uncanny >number of twos, threes and fours on DFF shots in the previous game. > George, your fire was 2 flat. Before that happened, I made your squad fire upon my HS. That was SFF. If it had been 4 flat fire, I haven't decided to undergo your fire. I thought that I was little bit advantageous after turn 1 Because you had only two good order squads available in your right. And I wanted to make the advantage decisive. In order to get a good advance fire position against your squad behind wall, I just wanted to save only one MF. But the God said that I was greed. You rolled . & : and I rolle ::: & ::: for my leader's 1MC. Now I know that I had to detour my stack through SFF immune area. Dong-Il "the natural enemy of George Bate" Chang From ian.pollard831 at ntlworld.com Mon Apr 5 05:14:19 2004 From: ian.pollard831 at ntlworld.com (Ian Pollard) Date: Mon Apr 5 05:15:39 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results In-Reply-To: <7F332A8009EE5D4CB62C87717A3498A1042570@exchange-be1.lancs.ac.uk> Message-ID: <000001c41b07$89fdd010$b4356651@Main> Your welcome Wayne, hopefully when we next meet at Intensive you'll be able to out-dice (well preferably out-play) me. Looking forward to Bournemouth myself. -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Kelly, Wayne Sent: 01 April 2004 12:13 To: pete@vftt.co.uk; ASL Mailing List Subject: RE: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results I concur. Nice one Pete. Great tournament and a very friendly bunch. Took pity on us newbies, cheers! Thanks to Ian for the Armour Tutorial despite us being diced! Looking forward to Bournemouth. Thanks Wayne -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net]On Behalf Of David Schofield Sent: 01 April 2004 12:00 To: 'pete@vftt.co.uk'; ASL Mailing List Subject: RE: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Great tournament Pete. Well organised and great fun. Cheers David -----Original Message----- From: Pete Phillipps [mailto:pete@vftt.co.uk] Sent: 30 March 2004 23:35 To: ASL Mailing List Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Hi Everyone, Just back from the HEROES 2004 ASL weekend in Blackpool, and the results are as follows: Tournament champion, with a 5-0 record was Toby Pilling, who wins a framed certificate and a cheque for ?75. Worst player, with a 0-5 record was Nigel Blair, who wins a copy of the ASL Starter Kit - hopefully he'll improve in time for INTENSIVE FIRE! The snake-eyes prize was won by Toby Pilling, who rolled 9 snakes. He walked away with ?2. The box-cars prize was won by Paul Case, who rolled 15 in his game. He knew he was gonna have a bad game as he rolled 8 of them on the first turn! Needless to say he didn't win! But he did win ?12. A good time was had by all, including 8 tournament newbies out of 35 attendees, who all are planning on coming to INTENSIVE FIRE. Which is 29 - 31 October 2004 in Bournemouth. HEROES 2005 is pencilled in for the weekend 25 - 27 March 2005. A full report of this year's event will be in VFTT55, which I hope to have out at the start of May. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 From ian.pollard831 at ntlworld.com Mon Apr 5 05:16:43 2004 From: ian.pollard831 at ntlworld.com (Ian Pollard) Date: Mon Apr 5 05:17:57 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results In-Reply-To: <000001c416a7$32b308c0$c34bfea9@pete700> Message-ID: <000101c41b07$df6ead30$b4356651@Main> Had a great time as usual Pete, although I still think it was a fix putting me and Paul Case against each other in the first round...you KNOW how we love to duke it out for the booby prize. Will get the pics to you by mid month and will sort out web site asap. Cheers Ian Once Bitten Twice Shy Three Times...........Well that's me folks -----Original Message----- From: Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net [mailto:Aslml-bounces@asl-forums.net] On Behalf Of Pete Phillipps Sent: 30 March 2004 23:35 To: ASL Mailing List Subject: [ASLML] ASL H2004 Results Hi Everyone, Just back from the HEROES 2004 ASL weekend in Blackpool, and the results are as follows: Tournament champion, with a 5-0 record was Toby Pilling, who wins a framed certificate and a cheque for ?75. Worst player, with a 0-5 record was Nigel Blair, who wins a copy of the ASL Starter Kit - hopefully he'll improve in time for INTENSIVE FIRE! The snake-eyes prize was won by Toby Pilling, who rolled 9 snakes. He walked away with ?2. The box-cars prize was won by Paul Case, who rolled 15 in his game. He knew he was gonna have a bad game as he rolled 8 of them on the first turn! Needless to say he didn't win! But he did win ?12. A good time was had by all, including 8 tournament newbies out of 35 attendees, who all are planning on coming to INTENSIVE FIRE. Which is 29 - 31 October 2004 in Bournemouth. HEROES 2005 is pencilled in for the weekend 25 - 27 March 2005. A full report of this year's event will be in VFTT55, which I hope to have out at the start of May. Pete "Many [wargame] battles have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer" - Frederick the Great, 1777 Download VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES (Britain's Premier ASL Journal) free from http://www.vftt.co.uk Get the latest news about HEROES 2004(ASL in Blackpool) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/h2004.pdf Get the latest news about INTENSIVE FIRE (Britain's biggest ASL tournament) at http://www.vftt.co.uk/ifdetails.htm Support the best at http://www.manutd.com/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 From ASL726 at aol.com Mon Apr 5 05:19:58 2004 From: ASL726 at aol.com (ASL726@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 5 05:21:02 2004 Subject: [ASLML] PRIZE LIST FOR NY STATE ASL CHAMPIONSHI[P Message-ID: <4825E919.46641F8F.00040FC3@aol.com> List-o-maniacs, Here's what's up for grabs at the upcoming NY State ASL Championship on December 4-5. 1st Prize...A military diorama depicting a British 25 pounder, caisson and crew in a sangar in North Afrika. 2nd prize...a new shrink-wrapped copy of AFRIKA KORPS ...a panzer grenadier game. 3rd prize...an MMP gift certificate for $25 and a copy of The Coldest War by James Brady 4th prize...a $20 CH gift certificate and a copy of Invasion...the alternate history of the German invasion of England by Kenneth Macksey. 5th prize...a $20 CH gift certificate and a copy of A Plague Upon Humanity...the secret genocide of Axis Japan's germ warfare operation by Daniel Barenblatt. 6th prize...a $20 CH gift certificate and a copy of Sailors To The End...the deadly fire on the USS Forrestal and the heroes who fought it by A.Freeman SPECIAL PRIZES...SPECIAL PRIZES...SPECIAL PRIZES... One lucky attendee will walk away with a never used copy of the classic Avalon Hill game that started it all... PANZERBLITZ ...This 1970 game only has a few counters punched and has never been played! ...BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! Another lucky attendee will walk way with a never used copy of Avalon Hill's ORIGINS OF WWII ...This 1971 game has never been played, though the counters were punched and placed into seperate envelopes. As many as 8 players will leave with valuable prizes. With a field of at least 32 expected, 25% will win. Make plans today to be there for all the fun and all the prizes at The First Annual NY State ASL Championship on Dec 4-5 azt The Best Western Sovereign in Albany NY. Joe Leoce From domorich at sprintmail.com Sun Apr 4 13:15:36 2004 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (rich domovic) Date: Mon Apr 5 07:43:20 2004 Subject: [ASLML] DC residual Message-ID: Can DC toting squad in a building next to a bridge (DASL hex dF2, bridge dE3), throw its DC onto the bridge when a close topped enemy AFV crosses the bridge as Defensive First Fire in order to place 12 residual on the bridge? We thought that it could, the bridge is not affected as in wasn't a "set" DC, and the AFV wasn't affected as it was not the predesignated target. Did we do this correctly? Thanks, Rich From neil at pegacat.com Sun Apr 4 16:02:16 2004 From: neil at pegacat.com (Neil Andrews) Date: Mon Apr 5 07:43:22 2004 Subject: [ASLML] ANZACcon Tournament 2004 Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040405075655.00abcec0@popa.melbpc.org.au> G'day to all ASL players world wide This is an open invitation to you all to make your way to one of Australia's biggest and best ASL tournaments ANZACcon 2004. In Australia's Southern mainland capital - Melbourne. You can find all the details you are going to need below >ANZACON 2004 >ASL TOURNAMENT >SATURDAY - SUNDAY >- APRIL 24 & 25 - >(gaming also available Friday night, 23 April) > >Details: >The annual Melbourne ASL tournament, ANZACON is to be played over two days >in late April. Two games are to be played each day. The times are: > Saturday 9am-6pm > Sunday 9am-5pm >Cost is $20 > >Other activities: >Friday night - > The venue is to be available on the Friday night for any > form of gaming. The times are 7.30pm until late. >Saturday night - > The tournament dinner is an optional, but highly > recommended activity. It will kick off at 8pm at a restaurant near the venue. > >Venue: >Ashburton library, High St, Ashburton > >Contact: >Please contact the following people and discuss which days you can attend. >Andrew Rogers - (03) 8661-5789 >Neil Andrews - (03) 9801-1412 Stay Safe Yours in ASL =============================== Neil Andrews Secretary - Army Group South ASL Group Boronia, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia neil@pegacat.com http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/asl-victoria/ =============================== From domorich at sprintmail.com Sun Apr 4 20:59:10 2004 From: domorich at sprintmail.com (rich domovic) Date: Mon Apr 5 07:43:26 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: CC Infiltration: Perry hath spoken... References: Message-ID: Beseler writes: > > >Thus, my three closely related questions: (1) If, in a non-ambush > >situation, the ATTACKER rolls an original 2, if he chooses to withdraw > all > >units, must he do so immediately, thus leaving the enemy unscathed? > (2) If > >he elects to stay, in order to effect the usually lethal result, must > he > >suffer an attack from the eliminated DEFENDER, as per normally > simultaneous > >CC? (3) If the ATTACKER chose to \'resolve\' the original 2 as a CC > attack, > >has he lost the option of withdrawing (save a \'12\' rolled by the > >DEFENDER)? > > > > 1) No. > 2) Not if he Withdraws first. > 3) No. > > ....Perry > MMP > > > Two last comments: as Probst pointed out, an important way in which > infiltration differs from an ambush attack is the 'NECESSITY' of > withdrawal, for, if you don't, you get attacked! > > Last but not least, as I believe Bakkan asked, in A18.12, the line > 'Unless one or both sides Withdraw due to Infiltration'. How can > both sides withdraw due to infiltration? Just couldn't come up > with the die rolls that would make it possible. Sure you can somehow > though... > > Yours, > Beseler Top of the last turn, two Italian 136 half squads take turns double timing to reach adjoining hexes next to an American 666 squad in a two hex 1-story (by SSR) building. The second building hex had just been the scene of a terrible melee with only a DC left in the hex. The American needs to maintain control over the building or suffer immediate loss. The 666 fires at one of the moving Ities at 12 flat (-1 non-assault, +1 woods), K/3 eliminates 136. The other CX 136 survives a 6 flat shot and out of desperation advances into melee with the 666. It rolls snakes at 1-6 CC which creates a 7-0 leader (+1 Italian, +1 morale <= 6, -1 due to odds < 1-1) but didn't affect the 666 due to the CC's +1 for the 136's CX status. So, the Italians could refigure the odds at 1-4, casualty reduce the 666 to a 346 withdraw the 136 to the other building hex, leave the 7-0 behind in melee to face a 3-1 CC attack. The 136 then plans to pickup the DC and throw it on the 346 in final fire next turn, possibly helped if the 346's 3-1 CC attack doesn't kill the 7-0 (8 wounds him). But alas, the point of the story, if the Ami 346 rolls his own snakes and generates an 8-1 leader, whether the 8-1 or 346 or both choose to withdraw or not. A18.12 "Unless one or both sides Withdraw due to Infiltration (11.22), both attacks are re-figured using both of the originally-rolled Original DRs and the new leader's FP/Leadership just as if he had been there all along." Clearly, one or both sides have withdrawn and the original attacks cannot be refigured using the original DRs as the 136 has withdrawn and likewise the Ami 8-1 or 346 may also have withdrawn. Rich From ethan.strauss at promega.com Mon Apr 5 06:47:12 2004 From: ethan.strauss at promega.com (Ethan Strauss) Date: Mon Apr 5 07:43:29 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Roommate for ASL Open? Message-ID: <84A048E51A0101448AF43BF3DDAB716804390D13@madmsg001.promega.com> Hi Everyone, I am going to be going to the ASL Open in Chicago April 23-25 and have reserved a room for the nights of the 23rd and 24th. In the interest of saving a few bucks, anyone want to room with me? The cost is $69/night + tax, so it would be about $70 each for both nights. Please reply to me directly as I don't read the ASLML often. Thanks! Ethan Ethan Strauss Madison Wisconsin ethan.strauss@promega.com From eaton.family at btinternet.com Mon Apr 5 10:41:36 2004 From: eaton.family at btinternet.com (Bill Eaton) Date: Mon Apr 5 10:42:47 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ Message-ID: Looking to play this soon as the Russians. I seem to remember that it is considered pro-Russian. Is this true? If so, is the balance enough to even it out? (The balance being to slightly slow down the number of reinforcements arriving per turn) Thanks in advance Bill From kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk Mon Apr 5 11:04:04 2004 From: kenneth.knudsen at mail.tele.dk (Kenneth Knudsen) Date: Mon Apr 5 11:05:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ References: Message-ID: <000401c41b38$6ee02b80$3611c80a@posh3> I have played it once and won as the Russians. I played a newbie though, so I cannot say if it is unbalanced. But I can imagine it being pretty tough to play against an experienced Russian player. I would think the balance provided should be enough to even it out. Kenneth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Eaton" To: Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:41 PM Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ | Looking to play this soon as the Russians. I seem to remember that it is | considered pro-Russian. Is this true? If so, is the balance enough to even it | out? (The balance being to slightly slow down the number of reinforcements | arriving per turn) | Thanks in advance | Bill | | From sidirezegh at charter.net Mon Apr 5 11:20:34 2004 From: sidirezegh at charter.net (Chas Argent) Date: Mon Apr 5 11:25:17 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ Message-ID: <200404051820.i35IKYUa074147@mxsf19.cluster1.charter.net> Well, ROAR has it 70 Russian wins to 59 German, so if you put stock in ROAR figures it certainly *seems* pretty even-depending on many of those playing may have used any balance provosions. -Chas > > From: Bill Eaton > Date: 2004/04/05 Mon PM 05:41:36 GMT > To: Aslml@asl-forums.net > Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ > > Looking to play this soon as the Russians. I seem to remember that it is > considered pro-Russian. Is this true? If so, is the balance enough to even it > out? (The balance being to slightly slow down the number of reinforcements > arriving per turn) > Thanks in advance > Bill > > > From perrycocke at comcast.net Mon Apr 5 11:44:09 2004 From: perrycocke at comcast.net (perrycocke@comcast.net) Date: Mon Apr 5 11:45:18 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Gureyev's HQ Message-ID: <040520041844.8504.4071A8F8000E3BC5000021382200763704FF9A949C909C868D8D9A@comcast.net> The "expert" Chaney'N'Mcgrath advice is to use both balances at the same time. ....Perry > Looking to play this soon as the Russians. I seem to remember that it is > considered pro-Russian. Is this true? If so, is the balance enough to even it > out? (The balance being to slightly slow down the number of reinforcements > arriving per turn) > Thanks in advance > Bill > > From pyoung at cwhealth.net Mon Apr 5 14:36:18 2004 From: pyoung at cwhealth.net (Peter Young) Date: Mon Apr 5 14:19:55 2004 Subject: [ASLML] Re: CC Infiltration: Perry hath spoken... References: Message-ID: <003701c41b56$07f74700$1543030a@Young> > Top of the last turn, two Italian 136 half squads take turns double timing to > reach adjoining hexes next to an American 666 squad in a two hex 1-story (by > SSR) building. The second building hex had just been the scene of a terrible > melee with only a DC left in the hex. The American needs to maintain control > over the building or suffer immediate loss. The 666 fires at one of the moving > Ities at 12 flat (-1 non-assault, +1 woods), K/3 eliminates 136. > The other CX 136 survives a 6 flat shot and out of desperation advances into > melee with the 666. It rolls snakes at 1-6 CC which creates a 7-0 leader (+1 > Italian, +1 morale <= 6, -1 due to odds < 1-1) but didn't affect the 666 due to > the CC's +1 for the 136's CX status. > So, the Italians could refigure the odds at 1-4, casualty reduce the 666 to a > 346 withdraw the 136 to the other building hex, leave the 7-0 behind in melee > to face a 3-1 CC attack. The 136 then plans to pickup the DC and throw it on > the 346 in final fire next turn, possibly helped if the 346's 3-1 CC attack > doesn't kill the 7-0 (8 wounds him). > > But alas, the point of the story, if the Ami 346 rolls his own snakes and > generates an 8-1 leader, whether the 8-1 or 346 or both choose to withdraw or > not. > > A18.12 "Unless one or both sides Withdraw due to Infiltration (11.22), both > attacks are re-figured using both of the originally-rolled Original DRs and the > new leader's FP/Leadership just as if he had been there all along." > > Clearly, one or both sides have withdrawn and the original attacks cannot be > refigured using the original DRs as the 136 has withdrawn and likewise the Ami > 8-1 or 346 may also have withdrawn. > Rich I think you have it slightly wrong and I'll try to summarize the rules as I understand them in answering. The key is that even with Infiltration (rolling an original 2), CC is NOT considered sequential. As A11.22 states, simultaneous CC is "momentarily suspended", thus allowing the ATTACKER the opportunity to withdraw following its attack but before being attacked in return, but this is not the same as saying the attack is "sequential". Thus if the ATTACKER doe